What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)

[daivid]

τὰ μετέωρα φροντιστής εἶπον ὅτι αἱ νεφέλαι καλύψοιεν τὸν οὐρανόν. ὁ οὐρανός δὲ δὴ ὕπο τῶν νεφελῶν ἐκαλύπτοντο.

Sorry, I have no time nor the skill to engage in Greek composition now.

But isn't the Greek word for "meteorologist" τὰ μετέωρα φροντιστής?

And how about "geologist"?

No need for a sorry -quite the reverse. Your suggestion is much appreciated.

ἐχθὲς ἔβρεχε καὶ ἡ νὺξ ἦν ψυχρά, ἐμοῦ ἐπερυομένου τὸ περιβόλαιον

A slight suggestion: this sounds a little strange because it suggests that pulling on the bedcovers caused the rain and cool night. Perhaps something like this would be better:

ἐχθὲς ἔβρεχε καὶ ἡ νὺξ ἦν ψυχρά, ωστ' επερυσαμην το περιβολαιον.

.

Yes, of course. Thanks very much for putting me right.

[mwh]

Note Paul's smiley. He was alluding to Plato’s “Apology” (Socrates’ Defence Speech) where Soc complains of people misrepresenting him as τα τε μετεωρα φροντιστης (sc. ὢν) και τα υπο γης παντα ανεζητηκὼς (Paul’s “geologist”) και τον ἥττω λογον κρείττω ποιῶν (making the weaker argument the stronger). It’s more a deep thinker than a weatherman. And φροντιστής may be intrusive in the text anyway (in reference to Soc's φροντιστήριον in Aristophanes' Clouds), so that τα μετεωρα would be the first object of ανεζητηκώς; otherwise the syntax is abnormal, as Qimmik noted. So I wouldn't go using the phrase.

“ὁ οὐρανός δὲ δὴ ὕπο τῶν νεφελῶν ἐκαλύπτοντο.”
Singular verb, εκαλυπτετο, if it really is the impf. you want. “is covered” wd be κεκάλυπται or κεκαλυμμένον ἐστιν.
ὑπὸ not ὕπο. Disyllabic prepositions, ἀπό, ἐπί, διά, περί, παρά, etc., are normally accented on the second syllable.
ὁ οὐρανός δὲ δὴ: better καὶ δὴ ὁ οὐρανὸς

[Qimmik]

τὰ μετέωρα φροντιστής εἶπον ὅτι αἱ νεφέλαι καλύψοιεν τὸν οὐρανόν. ὁ οὐρανός δὲ δὴ ὕπο τῶν νεφελῶν ἐκαλύπτοντο.

A few additional comments:

τὰ μετέωρα should be genitive

φροντιστής εἶπον -- singular noun + plural verb: needs to be one or the other (mwh already noted that you have the same problem with οὐρανός . . . ἐκαλύπτοντο, and that the perfect is better: "is covered" rather than impf. "was being covered" or pres. "is being covered"-- κεκάλυπται or κεκαλυμμένος ἐστιν).

ὕπο τῶν νεφελῶν -- in the case of a passive transitive verb, υπο + genitive generally indicates agency (i.e, a human person or some being endowed with intentionality), not instrumentality. (I assume you didn't intend an Aristophanic chorus of clouds here.) A simple dative would work here, I think. You probably could do without the definite article, too, unless you have specific clouds in mind.

[Markos]

τὴν βροχὴν Θεὸς ἐγγίζει.

ἐγγίζω -- 1. φέρω πλησίον, πλησιάζω τι εἴς τι. 2. ἀμεταβ. ἔρχομαι πλησίον.

Εἰ, διὰ τοῦ χρόνου πορευθείς, προῆν πρὸ τοῦ Πλάτωνος καὶ ἔλεγον ὅτι ἐν τῷ μέλλοντι ἔσονται μετεωρολογισταί, ἇρα συνίει ἂν ὁ Πλάτων;

πάνυ γε, φίλε. προφητὴς γὰρ ὁ Πλάτων καὶ τὰ μέλλνοτα προεῖδε καλῶς. τοῦτο γὰρ ἔγραψε.

Republic 473d:...οὐκ ἔστι κακῶν παῦλα...τῷ ἀνθρωπίνῳ γένει.

παῦσιν δὲ τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων κακῶν οὐκ ἔχομεν ἡμεῖς.

[daivid]

καίπερ πάλιν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ νεφέλαις καλυπτομένου οὐκ ἔβρεχε ὥστε ηὐδόκουν.

τὰ μετέωρα φροντιστής εἶπον ὅτι αἱ νεφέλαι καλύψοιεν τὸν οὐρανόν. ὁ οὐρανός δὲ δὴ ὕπο τῶν νεφελῶν ἐκαλύπτοντο.

A few additional comments:

τὰ μετέωρα should be genitive

Thanks

φροντιστής εἶπον -- singular noun + plural verb: needs to be one or the other (mwh already noted that you have the same problem with οὐρανός . . . ἐκαλύπτοντο, and that the perfect is better: "is covered" rather than impf. "was being covered" or pres. "is being covered"-- κεκάλυπται or κεκαλυμμένος ἐστιν).

I know this but I get easily distracted when writing by more difficult aspects of a sentence and such mistakes slip thru.

ὕπο τῶν νεφελῶν -- in the case of a passive transitive verb, υπο + genitive generally indicates agency (i.e, a human person or some being endowed with intentionality), not instrumentality. (I assume you didn't intend an Aristophanic chorus of clouds here.) A simple dative would work here, I think. You probably could do without the definite article, too, unless you have specific clouds in mind.

A true black swan. I shall pay careful attention to that in future.

ἐγγίζω -- 1. φέρω πλησίον, πλησιάζω τι εἴς τι. 2. ἀμεταβ. ἔρχομαι πλησίον.

It seems that I had met that once before in Mark but had completely forgotten. Thanks for another exposure.

[Markos]

λευκὸν ὄντα βλέπω τὸν οὐρανόν. ἀλλὰ πότερον ἢ βρέξει ἢ οὔ, τοῦτο οὐκ οἶδα.

[Qimmik]

λευκὸν ὄντα βλέπω τὸν οὐρανόν. ἀλλ' ἢ βρέξει ἢ οὔ, τοῦτο οὐκ οἶδα.

λευκὸν -- did you mean "white?" I think λευκοσ generally means "bright" or "clear" when applied to the sky or air:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... leuko%2Fs2

συννεφησ might be better if you meant "cloudy".

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... unnefh%2Fs

Color terms don't translate directly from English to Greek, and the same holds true with other languages, too. I'm also not sure that the Greeks would use color terms to describe the sky--I think they would talk in terms of clear or cloudy. It's worth having a look at the usages collected under various words in LSJ.

And probably αιθηρ, the "upper air" would be a more idiomatic way to talk about the weather than ουρανοσ, which is the "vault" of heaven, more like the celestial hemisphere.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 99.04.0057

I think you've used αιθηρ before in this forum.

[daivid]

καίπερ τοῦ αἰθέρος συννεφοῦς ὄντος οὐκ ἔβρεχε τήμερον.

And probably αιθηρ, the "upper air" would be a more idiomatic way to talk about the weather than ουρανοσ, which is the "vault" of heaven, more like the celestial hemisphere.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 99.04.0057

I think you've used αιθηρ before in this forum.

εὐχαριστῶ σοι

[mwh]

ἢ βρέξει ἢ οὔ, τοῦτο οὐκ οἶδα.

The twinned ἤ’s make it an independent statement: “either it will rain or it won’t.”
You want either
ειτε βρεξει ειτ’ οὔ,
or ποτερον βρεξει η οὔ,

Incidentally, you’re using βρέχειν in a very unusual way.

[Qimmik]

υειν is the usual Attic (and earlier) word. βρεχειν literally means "to wet", but seems to have some currency in later Greek for "to rain" (although it's probably difficult to tell whether in the instances cited by LSJ it meant just "it was wet"):

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 3Dbre%2Fxw

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 99.04.0057

Addendum: I happened to notice in Horrocks (2d ed.), Greek, A History of the Language and its Speakers (p. 150) that the 2d c. CE Atticism Nazi Phrynichus sputters with indignantion at the use of βρεχειν to mean υειν:

βρεχει επι του υει . . . παντελωσ αποδοκιμαστεον τουνομα

Horrocks cites Matthew 5.45 for an example of this deprecated usage in an informal register.

[mwh]

Well, I was just pointing out as an aside that to use βρεχει intransitively and impersonally, as we say “it’s raining,” i.e. the way Markos has been using it, is unusual. Not that I have any great objection to its being so used [here I had to correct the typo soused!], so long as this is recognized.

Matt.5.45 does not exemplify this use. There it means “sends rain,” “makes it rain."

Markos is of course free to say that ο θεος is to be understood as the subject, just as he said that ο αηρ is to understood as the subject of ψυχρος εστι for “It’s cold.” But in both cases what we’re really seeing is self-evidently an English phrase mechanically translated.

[Markos]

εὔδιος νῦν ἐστιν ὁ αἰθήρ, λάμποντος τοῦ ἡλίου.

ἢ βρέξει ἢ οὔ, τοῦτο οὐκ οἶδα.

...ποτερον βρεξει η οὔ

εὐχαριστῶ σοι.

[calvinist]

From LSJ:

II rain, send rain, Ev. Matt.5.45; Ζεὺς ἔβρεχε POxy.1482.6 (ii A. D.): c. acc., ἔβρεξε Κύριος χάλαζαν LXX Ex.9.23; θεῖον ib.Ge.19.24, cf. Ev.Luc.17.29; ἄρτους Al.Ex.16.4.
2 impers., βρέχει it rains, Telecl.54, Ep.Jac.5.17; ὅταν βρέχῃ Arr.Epict.1.6.26; also ἵνα ὑετὸς βρέχῃ Apoc.11.6.

The impersonal use is possible, but definitely not usual as mwh has said.

[daivid]

τῶν μετεώρων μεταβολικῶν ὄντων καὶ ὁ ἥλιος φαίνει τὲ ἔβρεξε ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς.

[mwh]

daivid, Remember τε (which as an enclitic carries no accent) is postpositive, so would come after εβρεξε. But καὶ … τε (unlike τε … καὶ) does not make a good pairing. Here it would be much better to have a pair of καί’s. So just substitute καὶ for τε and you take care of both issues.
Less important, the mixture of tenses (pres. and aor.) seems odd.
Your gen.abs. is fine.

[daivid]

τοῦ αἰθέρος συννεφοῦς ὄντος κινδυνεύσω βρέχεσθαι ἔπει ἔξειμι (ὕδατι ἀμέλει καὶ οὐκ οἰνῶ).

daivid, Remember τε (which as an enclitic carries no accent) is postpositive, so would come after εβρεξε. But καὶ … τε (unlike τε … καὶ) does not make a good pairing. Here it would be much better to have a pair of καί’s. So just substitute καὶ for τε and you take care of both issues.
Less important, the mixture of tenses (pres. and aor.) seems odd.
Your gen.abs. is fine.

εὐχαριστῶ σοι.

[Markos]

ἣν γῆν ἐποίησε, θερμάινει Θεός.

[Qimmik]

Markos:

ἣν γῆν ἐποίησε, θερμάινει Θεός.

I think this is a well-formed sentence of Greek, but I'm wondering whether the relative clause would be similar to a "restrictive" relative clause in English, i.e., "God warms the earth which/that he made," implying that there are other earths that God did not make, as opposed to what I think you want to say: "God warms the earth, which he made." I'm not sure about this; I could be wrong, and I couldn't find anything in Smyth or elsewhere about this, but somehow this feels to me like a restrictive relative clause.

Maybe this would be better: την γην πεποιηκωσ θερμαινει ο θεοσ.

Bill

[daivid]

τὰς πλανώσας σφαίρας ἅς ἐποίησε ὁ ἥλιος δὴ θερμαίνει. νῦν θερμαίνει καὶ τὸ ἐμοῦ μέρος τὸ ἡμετέρας πλανώσης σφαίρας.

[Markos]

ἐν τῇ τοῦ ἡλίου ἀκτινοβολίᾳ θερμαίνεται ὁ ἀήρ.

[daivid]

τήμερον ἐν τῷ τοῦ βασιλέως λίθῳ ὁ ἀήρ ἦν λίαν θερμὸν. εἰ οἱ τῆς οἰκίας τοῖχοι ἦν λεπτοὶ ἄν ἵδρωσα.

[Markos]

θερμασία νῦν ἔστι. οἱ δὲ τῆς ἐμῆς οἰκίας τοῖχοι λεπτοί εἰσι. ἱδρῶ οὖν.

[daivid]

ἡ οἴκημα οὗ εἰμὶ νῦν οὐκ ἔχει λεπτούς τοίχους ἀλλὰ περὶ ταῖς στέγαις οὗ ὑπνοῦμαι οἱ τοῖχοι εἰσί λεπτοί. ἡ νύξ ἦν θερμὴ ὥστε ἀφῆκα τὸ περιβόλαιον.

Edited from
ἡ οἴκημα οὗ εἰμὶ νῦν ἀλλὰ αἱ στέγαι οὗ ὑπνοῦμαι οἱ τοῖχοι εἰσί λεπτοί. ἡ νύξ ἦν θερμὴ ὥστε ἀφῆκα τὸ περιβόλαιον.

[Markos]

τοῦ ἡλίου λάμποντος, εὐδίαν ἔχομεν.

οἱ δὲ τῆς ἐμῆς οἰκίας τοῖχοι λεπτοί εἰσι.

ἡ μὲν οἰκία μου κακή ἐστι, ὀ δ' οἶκος οὔ.

[daivid]

τὴμερον ἡ γῆ ἐβρέχετο συνεχῶς

[Markos]

Mt 16:2: ὀψίας γενομένης λέγετε, Εὐδία, πυρράζει γὰρ ὁ οὐρανός

χθές, ὀψίας γενομένης, εἶδον τὸν οὐρανὸν πυρράζοντα. σήμερον δὲ εὐδίαν ἔχομεν.

[daivid]

ἐπεὶ ἠγέρθην εἶδον τὸν αἰθέρα λευκὸν ὄντα ἐνόμιζον ἡμέραν καλὰν εἶναι. ὁ μέντοι τῶν μετεώρων φροντιστής εἰπόν ὅτι ὕσει τὴν γῆν καὶ ὗσεν τὴν γῆν.

[Markos]

τὴν γῆν ὐπὸ Θεοῦ βρεχομένην βλέπω.

[daivid]

τὴμερον πάνυ ἡ γῆ ἐβρέχετο καὶ ἐθαύμαζον ὀρῶν τοσόσδε ὕδρα ὥστε μὴ ἐκβῆσαι ἐκ οἰκίας.

[mwh]

τοσονδε (neuter; better τοσουτον) υδωρ.
εκβηναι (or ωστ’ ουκ εξεβην)

[daivid]

τὴμερον ὁ ἥλιος φαίνει ὥστε μή μένειν ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ.

τοσονδε (neuter; better τοσουτον) υδωρ.
εκβηναι (or ωστ’ ουκ εξεβην)

εὐχαριστῶ σοί.

[mwh]

μενειν needs an accusative subject (since it’s not the sun that’s not staying in the house): ωστ’ εμε μη μενειν

[daivid]

τὴμερον ὁ ἥλιος πάλιν φαίνει ὥστ' ἐμὲ μή μένειν ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ. καὶ εἰ μέντοι βρεχει μὴ ἔμενον ἀν ἐν τῇ οἰκιὰ δεὶ γὰρ ἐμὲ ἀποδίδωμι ἀποδοῦναι βίβλον.

μενειν needs an accusative subject (since it’s not the sun that’s not staying in the house): ωστ’ εμε μη μενειν

εὐχαριστῶ σοι πάνυ

[daivid]

αἱ νεφέλαι ἐκάλυπτε τὸν οὐρανὸν ὥστε μὴ τὸν ἥλιον φαίνειν.

[Markos]

δεὶ γὰρ ἐμὲ...ἀποδοῦναι βίβλον.

ἄρτι νῦν δεῖ δὴ ἐμὲ πρὸς τὸν τῶν βιβλίων τόπον ἐλθὼν ἀποδοῦναι βιβλίον τι. εὐδίας οὔσης, χαιρήσομαι ἐν τῷ περιπατεῖν.

[Markos]

Θεὸν τὴν βροχὴν τὴν τὴν θερμασίαν κατέχουσαν θέλω πέμπειν.

[daivid]

τήμερον αἱ νεφέλαι ἤρχοντο τοὺ αἰθέρος καὶ ἔμενον τοῦ βρέχειν ἦρχεν. ὅμως οὐ ἔβρεχε.

[daivid]

συχνόν χρόνον ἔβρεχε τὸν γῆν. ἔπειτα ἡ μέν βροχὴν ἔπαυσε, αἱ δὲ νεφέλαι ἔμενον.

[Markos]

Gen 2:5b: οὐ γὰρ ἔβρεξεν ὁ Θεὸς ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν

βρέχει νῦν ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν μου ὁ Θεός μου.

[Markos]

τὴν βροχήν, ἐχθὲς πολλὴν οὖσαν, πέπαυκεν ὁ Θεός.