Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.
User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

klewlis wrote:Sorry to hear about your luggage... I personally would be more burned about the laptop than the book!

(This is why I take all the important stuff on with me)

I've done the lesson and made a lot of mistakes in the last exercise, so it will be lots of red. Will post it shortly.
The bag actually was supposed to go on with me. There was some confusion in the jet bridge (jetway). I needed to take some things out of my small suitcase to give to another flight attendant, so I took my book bag (which is normally hanging on the long handle of my small suitcase) and put it on the floor. I took out the things I needed to give him, and then I apparently didn't return the book bag to the trolley. It was at the door of the plane! Someone should have noticed it, picked up and given it to the ground crew that was still in attendance at the door (because the passengers hadn't yet arrived). But, they didn't. Either (1) they didn't know who it belonged to and took it to Lost & Found somewhere or (2) one of the cleaners saw it on the floor and snuck it out to take home with them. If the former, I'll hopefully find it tomorrow morning. If the latter, I will pursue it further to find out who the cleaner was who took it (if possible) and to get my things back. Otherwise, I'll just buy everything anew. (Not the greatest option in the world!)

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

It generally seems that you prefer that someone else critique your work (like there’s something personal between us – when there shouldn’t be), but I figured I’d give it a go since I’ve already posted my own answers. Try not to take anything harshly.
klewlis wrote:
3. κέλευε τοὺς φύλακας τοῖς παισὶ βοηθεῖν. Tell the guards to rescue the children.
Do you know if there’s any substantive difference between σῴζειν and βοηθεῖν?
klewlis wrote:8. The guards want to help the boys. οἱ φυλακες βουλονται τους παιδας συλλαμβανειν.
I chose βοηθεῖν rather than συλλαμβάνειν. Either way, both of these verbs go with the dative for the recipient of the assistance (τοῖς παισί[ν] rather than τοὺς παῖδας). I don’t know if there’s any difference here between βοηθεῖν and συλλαμβάνειν. It’s weird how these three words (compared with σῴζειν above) overlap.
klewlis wrote:9. The prudent girls fear the storm. αἱ παρθενοι σωφρονες φοβουνται τον χειμωνα.
The word σώφρονες is an adjective in this case. It needs to be bound to the noun head either by sandwiching (αἱ σώφρονες παρθένοι) or by repeating the article (αἱ παρθένοι αἱ σώφρονες). Of course, the first article in such a pair is optional (παρθένοι αἱ σώφρονες).
klewlis wrote:10. We wish to tell the names of the girls to the boy. βουλομεθα λεγειν τα ὀνοματα των παρθενων τῳ παιδι. ἐθελομεν λεγειν τα των παρθενων ὀνοματα τῳ παιδι.
I notice that you switched from βούλεσθαι to ἐθέλειν in your self-correction. Do you sense any difference between these two terms? You used βούλεσθαι in number 7, for example, where I used ἐθέλειν. Do you see a difference between “want,” “desire” and “be willing”? How do you think these differences may play in the meaning of the Greek terms?
klewlis wrote:
9. τίνος πρόβατα τοσοῦτον ψόφον ποιεῖ; Why are the sheep making so much noise? Whose sheep are making such noise?
Of course, I assume that you figured out that “why?” always remains in what appears to be the nominative case (τί;) and doesn’t take the other cases. The form here (τίνος;) is, of course, genitive and means “of whom”? Of course, the singular verb form (ποιεῖ) matches the neuter plural (πρόβατα).
klewlis wrote:10. τίνι μέλλεις παρέχειν τὸ ἄροτρον; To whom are you about to provide the plow?
Notice that in the vocabulary they give μέλλειν to mean “intend” as well as “be about to.” It plays into another of the exercises in this lesson (7θ #3, “I intend to” → μέλλω, as you translated it yourself below), so I figured it was right to use it here.
klewlis wrote:
4. τίνος ἄροτρον πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν φέρεις; τὸ φίλου τινὸς ἄροτρον φέρω. Whose plow are you carrying to the field? I'm carrying my friend's plow.
Notice that φίλου τινὸς is indefinite. The English phrase “my friend’s plow/plough” would rather be τὸ τοῦ [ἐμοῦ] φίλου ἄροτρον. The phrase τὸ φίλου τινὸς ἄροτρον is indefinite, translating more like “the plough of a friend of mine” or “a plough that belongs to one of my friends.” The indefiniteness doesn’t come out in “my friend’s plough.”
klewlis wrote:
2. His mother says to the young man (use ὁ νεᾱνίᾱς), "You are to blame; for you always forget (use ἐπιλανθάνομαι + gen) your father's words."
ἡ μητηρ αὐτου τῳ νεανιᾳ λεγει, εἰ αἰτιος, συ γαρ ἀει ἐπιλανθανεσαι των λογων του πατρου σου.
... συ αἰτιος εἰ, γαρ ἀει ἐπιλανθανεσαι των του πατρος λογων. ??
Your corrections fixed several things. Remember that γάρ is a postpositive, so it should never be the first word in the sentence. Instead of *γὰρ ἀεί... we would see ἀεὶ γὰρ....
klewlis wrote:3. Theseus is very sad (use λῡπέομαι) and says, "I myself am to blame; and so I intend to flee from home."
ὁ θησευς μαλα λυπουται και λεγει, ἐγω ἐμαυτον εἰμι αἰτιος και οὐν μελλω ἀποφευγειν ἀπο του οἰκου.
λυπειται (and can I use ἐμαυτον this way??)
No, you cannot use ἐμαυτόν this way. Why? Because ἐμαυτόν is accusative. The word εἰμί doesn’t naturally take accusative case nouns or adjectives (or relative pronouns). It needs to be in the nominative. However, there is no nominative of ἐμαυτοῦ/ἐμαυτῷ/ἐμαυτόν. You need to use αὐτός to intensify even the first person in the nominative. I translated this as αὐτὸς δὴ αἴτιός εἰμι with δή to make it that much more emphatic.
klewlis wrote:4. But his mother tells (orders) him not (μή) to go away (ἀπιέναι).
ἀλλ' ἡ μητηρ του αὐτου κελευει αυτον ὁτι μη ἀπιεναι. (wasn't sure about the ὁτι here)
You shouldn’t use ὅτι after κελεύει, but only the infinitive. I don’t know why you would want to use an article with the possessive pronoun (*τοῦ αὐτοῦ). You should certainly remove that. If you remove both τοῦ and ὅτι, you will have a good sentence.
klewlis wrote:5. Soon he becomes king, and all the Athenians love and honor him.
δ'ὀλιγου γιγνεται ὁ βασιλευς και παντοι Ἀθηνοι φιλουσιν αὐτον και τιμουσιν.
... οἱ Ἀθηνοι ... τιμωσιν
Notice the difference between δ᾿ (short for δέ) and δι᾿ (short for διά). The phrase for “soon” is δι᾿ ὀλίγου, meaning διὰ ὀλίγου. You don’t need an article with βασιλεύς, which would naturally turn it into the subject of the verb and create an incomplete idea (“the king became…” – what did the king became?!). It’s most natural to have the predicate nominative before the verb, too. Thus, δι᾿ ὀλίγου βασιλεὺς γίγνεται… Also, πᾶς is third declension (πᾶς, παντός). The nominative plural should be πάντες, and it should be accompanied with the substantive Ἀθηναῖοι (from Ἀθηναῖος) rather than *Ἀθηνοι (thus: πάντες οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι “all the Athenians”).

Overall, quite a nice job. I hope I’m not too picky, but I may have picked out some mistakes that you wouldn’t have noticed on your own after reviewing it again.

In hopes of being helpful,
Jason

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

Hello, everybody
I managed to post my work but haven't had any time to read yours so far.
feedback welcomed, thank you

Exercise 7ε
1. Come here, boy, and drive the goats to the field
2. Hurry home, slaves, and give food to the goats
3. Order the guards to help the boys
4. Are you not afraid of the storm, friends?
5. The farmer is leading the dogs to the field
6. Ἐλαύνομεν τὰς αἴγας ἀνὰ τὴν ὁδόν
7. Οἱ παῖδες οὐκ ἐθέλουσι τοῖς φύλαξι πείθεσθαι
8. Οἱ φύλακες ἐθέλουσι τοῖς παισὶ βοηθεῖν
9. Αἱ σώφρονες παρθένοι τὸν χειμῶνα φοβοῦνται
10. Ἐθέλομεν τὰ ὀνόματα τῶν παρθένων τῷ παιδὶ εἰπεῖν

Exercise 7ζ
1. What are the men doing?
2. The man is telling the girl a story
3. Some children are taking the dogs into the fields
4. I want to know who lives in the cave
5. Do you want to listen to a story, children?
6. We want to listen to a story about a giant
7. Who are you leading to the field, children?
8. We are leading some foreigners, father
9. Whose sheep are making such noise?
10. Who are you going to provide the plough?

Exercise 7η
1. Who lives in the cave? A terrifying giant lives in the cave
2. Who do you see in the house? I see a woman in the house
3. Who is he leading into the city? I am leading some slaves into the city (I think the verb in the question is wrong, it's 3rd sing. While it should be 2nd sing to match the answer)
4. Whose plough are you taking to the field? I am taking a friend's plough
5. Whose dog is this? It is my father's

Exercise 7θ
1. Ἐπειδὲ ὁ Θήσευς εἰσέρχεται εἰς τὰς Ἀθήνας, μανθάνεται ὅτι ὁ ἑαυτὸς πατὴρ τέθνηκεν
2. Ἡ μέτηρ τῷ νεανίᾳ λέγει• αὐτὸς αἴτιος εἶ• σὺ γὰρ ἀεὶ ἐπιλανθάνῃ τῶν λόγων τῶν τοῦ πατρός
3. Ὁ Θήσευ ς μάλα λυπεῖται καὶ λέγει• Ἀυτὸς αἴτιός εἰμι• μέλλω οὖν ἀπὸ τῆς οἰκίας φεύγειν
4. Ἀλλὰ ἡ μέτηρ αὐτὸν κέλευει μὴ ἀπιέναι
5. Δι' ὀλίγου βασιλεὺς γίγνεται, καὶ πάντες οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι αὐτὸν φιλοῦσι καὶ τιμῶσι

and, yes, Jason, I know my colon and semicolon are not displayed properly despite they are on my laptop.
any news about your luggage?
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

brunapogliano wrote:Exercise 7ε
6. Ἐλαύνομεν τὰς αἴγας ἀνὰ τὴν ὁδόν
The sentence reads “leading.” I’ve used ἄγομεν. Why do you have ἐλαύνομεν? Do you think that’s better?
brunapogliano wrote:Exercise 7ζ
4. I want to know who lives in the cave
I also always took γιγνώσκειν as “to know,” but it’s introduced in the text as “to get to know, to come to know, to find out, to learn.” I think it’s talking about finding out who lives there, the acquisition (rather than possession) of knowledge. What do you think?
brunapogliano wrote: Exercise 7η
3. Who is he leading into the city? I am leading some slaves into the city (I think the verb in the question is wrong, it's 3rd sing. While it should be 2nd sing to match the answer)
This is actually second-person. It’s middle-passive (deponent). Think about the endings:

ἡγοῦμαι
ἡγῇ / ἡγεῖ
ἡγεῖται
ἡγούμεθα
ἡγεῖσθε
ἡγοῦνται

In the Koine, the more common form is -ῃ (ἡγῇ), while in Attic it is more commonly -ει (ἡγεῖ).
brunapogliano wrote:Exercise 7θ
1. Ἐπειδὲ ὁ Θήσευς εἰσέρχεται εἰς τὰς Ἀθήνας, μανθάνεται ὅτι ὁ ἑαυτὸς πατὴρ τέθνηκεν
Does it say “entered Athens” or “arrived in Athens”? We have a word in the vocabulary for “arrive,” which is ἀφικνεῖσθαι.
brunapogliano wrote:2. Ἡ μέτηρ τῷ νεανίᾳ λέγει• αὐτὸς αἴτιος εἶ• σὺ γὰρ ἀεὶ ἐπιλανθάνῃ τῶν λόγων τῶν τοῦ πατρός
Rather than αὐτὸς εἶ (“you yourself are…”), we would probably just expect and emphatic σύ, and the second verb wouldn’t need an overt subject pronoun at all. Notice that the second-person ending on ἐπιλανθάνῃ, as you wrote, can also be spelled with -ει at the end (as ἐπιλανθάνει). This touches on the form ἡγεῖ from above.

Beyond this, it all seems great to me. Nice job. :)
brunapogliano wrote:and, yes, Jason, I know my colon and semicolon are not displayed properly despite they are on my laptop.
Are you using GrAlt + Shift + ] to type in the semicolon? Hmm…
brunapogliano wrote:any news about your luggage?
I’ll hopefully know something tomorrow, and I’ll let you know.

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

[quote="jaihare
Beyond this, it all seems great to me. Nice job. :)[/quote]
thank you so much, you gave me a lot to think over.
I have no time now to comment on your remarks.
Hoping I'll be able to but I don't know when.
I had just finished comparing my work with yours and Klewlis', I blushed at some silly mistakes I made.
Now I have fixed everythig.
does this mean we are heading to CH 8?
:D
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

brunapogliano wrote:does this mean we are heading to CH 8?
:D
I assume so. Let's wait for klewlis to chime in on that. Haven't heard anything from CanadianGirl in the second half of this thread (7β).
Last edited by jaihare on Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

ἡγέ-ομαι → ἡγοῦμαι
ἡγέ-ει / ἡγέ-ῃ → ἡγεῖ / ἡγῇ
ἡγέ-εται → ἡγεῖται
ἡγέ-ομεθα → ἡγούμεθα
ἡγέ-εσθε → ἡγεῖσθε
ἡγέ-ονται → ἡγοῦνται

In the second-person singular, -εσαι becomes either -ει or -ῃ. Thus, both ἡγεῖ and ἡγῇ are possible forms. Similarly, βούλει and βούλῃ both mean “you (s.) want.” Also, βλέψει and βλέψῃ (deponent future middles) both mean “you (s.) will look.” Cool, eh?

User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis »

brunapogliano wrote:I had just finished comparing my work with yours and Klewlis', I blushed at some silly mistakes I made.
No need... we all make mistakes, silly and otherwise. I check over my stuff as I'm typing it in, and correct things there, and still miss plenty of things that I should know better.
does this mean we are heading to CH 8?
:D
I've posted it... 8A does not have much for exercises but that's ok because I need to spend more time going back over what we've covered so far.
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

klewlis wrote:I've posted it... 8A does not have much for exercises but that's ok because I need to spend more time going back over what we've covered so far.
I find that I constantly need review. It can't just be me!

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

klewlis wrote:
brunapogliano wrote:
does this mean we are heading to CH 8?
:D
I've posted it... 8A does not have much for exercises but that's ok because I need to spend more time going back over what we've covered so far.
Thanks for your comments about my mistakes. Mistakes teach more than anything else, but there are some mistakes that I should not make anymore.
As for Ch 8A, I'm going to slow down, before posting it I want and need to revise all the comments about Ch 7B as well as answer some of Jason's remarks.
jaihare wrote:I find that I constantly need review. It can't just be me!
Everybody does, but wait till you are 57 and you'll understand the need for revision even more. :lol:
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

jaihare wrote:Do you know if there’s any substantive difference between σῴζειν and βοηθεῖν?
I looked up in Lidd.Scott and collated the various meanings and I think I see the difference (unfortunately it doesn't mean I can also remember it):
βοηθεῖν
come to aid, succour, assist, aid, come to the rescue
σῴζω
to save from death, keep alive, preserve; to bring one safe to, to carry off safe, rescue from
συλλαμβάνω
take part with or assist
Do you see a difference between “want,” “desire” and “be willing”? How do you think these differences may play in the meaning of the Greek terms?
unfortunately Lidd.Scott is not so clear,
ἐθέλω to be willing, wish
βούλομαι will, wish, be willing
I read both entries thoroughly but I still wouldn't know how to distinguish the two Greek verbs. Do you? If so, could you explain that to me? thks :D
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

jaihare wrote:
brunapogliano wrote:Exercise 7ε
6. Ἐλαύνομεν τὰς αἴγας ἀνὰ τὴν ὁδόν
The sentence reads “leading.” I’ve used ἄγομεν. Why do you have ἐλαύνομεν? Do you think that’s better?
No, I don't, just a little different. Liddell Scott shows, among other examples,
driving flocks, “εἰς εὐρὺ σπέος ἤλασε μῆλα
ἄγομεν is probably the first translation, I think it depends on the movement you imagine. Besides, ἐλαύνομεν may have stuck in my ear because it appears so frequently in Athenaze, usually when someone is driving/leading animals.
We could say ἄγομεν focuses more on direction or purpose, while ἐλαύνομεν explains how we lead the animals. What do you think?
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

brunapogliano wrote:
jaihare wrote:
brunapogliano wrote:Exercise 7ε
6. Ἐλαύνομεν τὰς αἴγας ἀνὰ τὴν ὁδόν
The sentence reads “leading.” I’ve used ἄγομεν. Why do you have ἐλαύνομεν? Do you think that’s better?
No, I don't, just a little different. Liddell Scott shows, among other examples,
driving flocks, “εἰς εὐρὺ σπέος ἤλασε μῆλα
ἄγομεν is probably the first translation, I think it depends on the movement you imagine. Besides, ἐλαύνομεν may have stuck in my ear because it appears so frequently in Athenaze, usually when someone is driving/leading animals.
We could say ἄγομεν focuses more on direction or purpose, while ἐλαύνομεν explains how we lead the animals. What do you think?
Makes sense to me. I mean, you certainly don't take animals by the paws and guide them along. :) You get behind them and make sure that they don't turn right or left, pushing them (gently) toward the destination that you have in mind for them. It's certainly "driving."

CanadianGirl
Textkit Fan
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:55 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by CanadianGirl »

Sorry I've been missing, gang-I have had the worse cold ever-everybody I know is getting it & it takes forever to get over -buy stock in Sudafed if you want a good investment. This is day 7 for me & I'm still coughing etc. . I'm way behind on everything but I will post the rest of lesson 7 tomorrow, then I suppose we can start thinking @ lesson 8.

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

CanadianGirl wrote:Sorry I've been missing, gang-I have had the worse cold ever-everybody I know is getting it & it takes forever to get over -buy stock in Sudafed if you want a good investment. This is day 7 for me & I'm still coughing etc. . I'm way behind on everything but I will post the rest of lesson 7 tomorrow, then I suppose we can start thinking @ lesson 8.
Whenever you're ready. Just take care of yourself and feel better! :)

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

jaihare wrote:Makes sense to me. I mean, you certainly don't take animals by the paws and guide them along. :) You get behind them and make sure that they don't turn right or left, pushing them (gently) toward the destination that you have in mind for them. It's certainly "driving."
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I couldn't have explained it better than you did

what about your missing luggage? :?:
I also always took γιγνώσκειν as “to know,” but it’s introduced in the text as “to get to know, to come to know, to find out, to learn.” I think it’s talking about finding out who lives there, the acquisition (rather than possession) of knowledge. What do you think?
definitely, a nice point you made

brunapogliano wrote:
Exercise 7θ
1. Ἐπειδὲ ὁ Θήσευς εἰσέρχεται εἰς τὰς Ἀθήνας, μανθάνεται ὅτι ὁ ἑαυτὸς πατὴρ τέθνηκεν
Does it say “entered Athens” or “arrived in Athens”? We have a word in the vocabulary for “arrive,” which is ἀφικνεῖσθαι.
you're right.
only one comment left, later. over for now
:)
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

brunapogliano wrote:what about your missing luggage? :?:
No luck so far. I've turned it over to the airport authorities and am waiting for an investigation. I'm not allowed to pursue it myself.

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

CanadianGirl wrote:Sorry I've been missing, gang-I have had the worse cold ever-everybody I know is getting it & it takes forever to get over -buy stock in Sudafed if you want a good investment. This is day 7 for me & I'm still coughing etc. . I'm way behind on everything but I will post the rest of lesson 7 tomorrow, then I suppose we can start thinking @ lesson 8.
Nice to hear from you even if it is not good news. Never worry about being late. :D
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

brunapogliano wrote:
CanadianGirl wrote:Sorry I've been missing, gang-I have had the worse cold ever-everybody I know is getting it & it takes forever to get over -buy stock in Sudafed if you want a good investment. This is day 7 for me & I'm still coughing etc. . I'm way behind on everything but I will post the rest of lesson 7 tomorrow, then I suppose we can start thinking @ lesson 8.
Nice to hear from you even if it is not good news. Never worry about being late. :D
+1

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

My backpack was found! I'm picking it up this evening. Yay! Athenaze is coming back. My tablet is coming back. All the connectors and cables and storage drives are coming back!

So excited! :)

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

I'm writing this from my tablet right now! It's all back and wonderful. Life is good again.

CanadianGirl
Textkit Fan
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:55 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by CanadianGirl »

"Sinusitis" is the diagnosis, haven't had a good night's sleep for a while-too busy coughing Oh well, let's get 7 out of the way so we can move on. About 'indefinites'- aren't they supposed to translated on their own, like " a certain," etc. ?

Athenaze 7 part 2


1. Come here, child, and lead the goat to the field.
2. Hurry home, slaves (servants) and give grain to these goats.
3. Order those guards to call for the children.
4. Oh friends, don’t you fear the storm?
5. The farmer is leading the dogs to the field.
6. ‘Ηγουμεθα τοις αιχι ανα τον ‘οδον.
7. ‘Οι παιδες οθ βοθλονται πειθεσθαι τοις φυλακες.
8. ‘Οι φυλακες βουλονται συλλαμβανειν τους παιδες.
9. ‘Οι παρθενοι σωφρονες φοβουνται τον χειμωνα.
10. Βουλομεθα λεγειν τα ονοματα των παρθενων εις τω παιδω.


1. Τι
2. Τινα
3. Τινες
4. Τις
5. Τινα , τινος
6. Τινα, τινος
7. Τισι
8. Τισι
9. Τινος
10. τινι


7h
1. Who is living in this cave? A fearful giant lives in the cave.
2. What person do you see in the house? I see a (certain) woman in the house. (Indefinite pronouns & adjectives mean more than articles, don’t they?)
3. Who are you leading into the city? I am leading certain (or some) slaves into the city.
4. Which plow are you carrying to the field? –I am carrying the plow of a friend.
5. What (or whose) dog is this? It is that of my father.

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

CanadianGirl wrote:"Sinusitis" is the diagnosis, haven't had a good night's sleep for a while-too busy coughing Oh well, let's get 7 out of the way so we can move on.
I’m sorry to hear that you’re still sick. Did the doctor give you something good that will knock you out?
CanadianGirl wrote:About 'indefinites'- aren't they supposed to translated on their own, like " a certain," etc. ?
They often translate as a simple indefinite article in English.

ἄνθρωπός τις = a man, a certain man (nom.)
γυναῖκά τινα = a woman, a certain woman (acc.)
μῦθόν τινα = a story, a certain story (acc.)
δεσμωτήριόν τι = a prison, a certain prison (nom./acc.)

You’ll get a feel for it as you run into it more often in the readings and exercises.
CanadianGirl wrote:
1. Come here, child, and lead the goat to the field.
Notice that τὰς αἶγας is plural. So, rather than “goat,” we have “goats.”
CanadianGirl wrote:2. Hurry home, slaves (servants) and give grain to these goats.
3. Order those guards to call for the children.
I don’t think we’ve covered the demonstrative pronouns (this, that, these, those) in this study yet. Rather than “these” and “those” in these two sentences, you should just have “the.”
CanadianGirl wrote:6. ‘Ηγουμεθα τοις αιχι ανα τον ‘οδον.
Nice. Just remember that the dative plural is like the nominative singular (αἴξ → αἰξί(ν)).
CanadianGirl wrote:7. ‘Οι παιδες οθ βοθλονται πειθεσθαι τοις φυλακες.
Just typos:
οθ → οὐ
βοθλονται → βούλονται

φύλακες is nominative plural. You want the dative plural.
CanadianGirl wrote:8. ‘Οι φυλακες βουλονται συλλαμβανειν τους παιδες.
The verb συλλαμβάνειν also governs the dative like βοηθεῖν. So, the object shouldn’t be in the accusative (τοὺς παῖδας) but rather in the dative.
CanadianGirl wrote:9. ‘Οι παρθενοι σωφρονες φοβουνται τον χειμωνα.
First, παρθένος is feminine (οἱ → αἱ). Second, the adjective needs to be sandwiched (αἱ σώφρονες παρθένοι) or with a doubled article (αἱ παρθένοι αἱ σώφρονες). See my comment to klewlis above along the same lines.
CanadianGirl wrote:10. Βουλομεθα λεγειν τα ονοματα των παρθενων εις τω παιδω.
What case does εἰς take? How would that change εἰς *τῷ παιδί (also, notice the dative form of παῖς, παιδός, παιδί, παῖδα).
CanadianGirl wrote:
1. Τι
2. Τινα
3. Τινες
4. Τις
5. Τινα , τινος
6. Τινα, τινος
7. Τισι
8. Τισι
9. Τινος
10. τινι
If you’re feeling up to it, I’d go back through these ones and translate the sentences, deciding which forms are indefinite and which are interrogatives.
CanadianGirl wrote:7h
(Indefinite pronouns & adjectives mean more than articles, don’t they?)
Not necessarily. ;)
CanadianGirl wrote:4. Which plow are you carrying to the field? –I am carrying the plow of a friend.
Rather than “which?” the question is asking “of whom?” That is, “whose plough are you carrying κτλ.?”

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

jaihare wrote:My backpack was found! I'm picking it up this evening. Yay! Athenaze is coming back. My tablet is coming back. All the connectors and cables and storage drives are coming back!

So excited! :)
:D :D :D
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

User avatar
brunapogliano
Textkit Member
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano »

jaihare wrote: Rather than αὐτὸς εἶ (“you yourself are…”), we would probably just expect and emphatic σύ, and the second verb wouldn’t need an overt subject pronoun at all. Notice that the second-person ending on ἐπιλανθάνῃ, as you wrote, can also be spelled with -ει at the end (as ἐπιλανθάνει). This touches on the form ἡγεῖ from above.
I agree. I think I both wanted to play with αὐτὸς and I didn't (and don't) feel like a native English speaker does. In Italian αὐτὸς, as intensifier, is not so strong as it is in English. We have a translation for that but it is old-fashioned, not frequent in today's language. We could say my sentence was overstated.
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

CanadianGirl
Textkit Fan
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:55 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by CanadianGirl »

Jaihare-Thanks for the back-up, I'm taking an antibiotic that's supposed to help, plus a 'narcotic' cough syrup. I asked the Dr. if it would make you act strange & he said-no more than usual. So-daytime is better than nighttime. I am looking at Lesson 8, hope we can all move on.

User avatar
jaihare
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 959
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:47 am
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Contact:

Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare »

CanadianGirl wrote:Jaihare-Thanks for the back-up, I'm taking an antibiotic that's supposed to help, plus a 'narcotic' cough syrup. I asked the Dr. if it would make you act strange & he said-no more than usual. So-daytime is better than nighttime. I am looking at Lesson 8, hope we can all move on.
As the Doctor would say: Allons-y!

The grammar is starting to get a little harder, so it would be advisable (I think), and since we have all agreed to take the next bit a little slower, to take a little bit of time to review vocabulary and grammar up to this point. At least, read through the reading sections for 6α through 7β one more time before moving into 8α officially. Make sure that you know all of the vocabulary and can read the stories quickly enough without looking up words - except for the glossed terms at the bottom of the paragraphs.

Chapter 8 it is! Yay!

Image

Post Reply