ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

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jeidsath
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ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by jeidsath »

I'm reading Lucian's Dead Come to Life in the Loeb edition: http://www.loebclassics.com/view/lucian ... L130.3.xml
ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,
In Harmon's translation this is given as
“Let wallet to wallet give succour, and cudgel to cudgel,”
And the footnote gives the reference to the Iliad (2.363). But am I correct in thinking that "wallet" is more likely "cripple" here? Only πηρή instead of πηρός to make the Iliad paraphrase work? Of course, since these cudgels are βάκρα "blind" seems as likely as "cripple."

Also, is the dative really πηρῃφιν (for either πήρα or πηρός)? Or is that done for to make the quotation apparent?

Aside: My current reading technique is to read each page in Greek (with the English facing page turned off) a few times until I understand as much as I can. There are usually a few words that I can only guess at, and one or two tough sentences. Then I turn on the English to see the parts I missed (and the parts I misunderstood).
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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jeidsath
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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by jeidsath »

Also, a related question. If a βακτρᾶς is some who sells βάκτρα, what is the word for someone who uses βάτρα?
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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jeidsath
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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by jeidsath »

Our only known use of βακτρᾶς comes from: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptio ... region%3D1

Here lies Andreas, a βακτρᾶ, also Dionysia.

Perhaps a maker or seller, or instead a user of βάκτρα?
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by Qimmik »

This is a witty parody of the Homeric line,

ὡς φρήτρη φρήτρηφιν ἀρήγῃ, φῦλα δὲ φύλοις.

which means something like, "let clan help clan, tribes help tribes". Nestor tells Agamemnon to divide up the troops by tribes and clans, and then urges the clan members and tribe members to help their fellow clansmen and tribesmen (or perhaps he means for one clan to help another and one tribe to help another).

Addendum: I have revised what I originally wrote, which I see now was wrong. However, the following is ok, I think.

πήρα does mean wallet.

-φιν is an archaic inflectional ending, which in Homer is usually instrumental but sometimes dative and sometimes genitive. Here, Lucian has used the the odd Homeric-looking form πήρῃφιν to mimic the Homeric verse in a kind of snarky, sardonic way.
Last edited by Qimmik on Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by jeidsath »

Yes, exactly my thinking. Except that I thought the "blind (stick users) helping the blind" was a bit of a pun, since they are at the moment also "cudgelers (stick users) helping the cudgelers."
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by Qimmik »

Actually, on second thought, I believe the wallet is what beggars collect food in.

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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by jeidsath »

Actually, on second thought, I believe the wallet is what beggars collect food in.
Yes, that would make sense, especially with the feminine noun. Begging and philosophy would be a popular association.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by Qimmik »

A lightbulb went off for me.

In Odyssey. 13.437, Athene gives Odysseus a wallet and a staff as part of his disguise. These are the emblems of a beggar:

δῶκε δέ οἱ σκῆπτρον καὶ ἀεικέα πήρην,

At 17.197, he takes his wallet and Eumaeus gives him his staff:

ἦ ῥα καὶ ἀμφ᾽ ὤμοισιν ἀεικέα βάλλετο πήρην,
πυκνὰ ῥωγαλέην: ἐν δὲ στρόφος ἦεν ἀορτήρ:
Εὔμαιος δ᾽ ἄρα οἱ σκῆπτρον θυμαρὲς ἔδωκε.

Also, 18.108:

ἦ ῥα καὶ ἀμφ᾽ ὤμοισιν ἀεικέα βάλλετο πήρην,
πυκνὰ ῥωγαλέην: ἐν δὲ στρόφος ἦεν ἀορτήρ.

Also 17357 and 456.

So Lucian's verse seems to mean "let beggar help beggar."

I don't think begging would necessarily be associated with philosophy (except perhaps the Cynics), but Lucian is implying that "high class" philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle are no better than beggars.

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Re: ὡς πήρη πήρῃφιν ἀρήγῃ, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις,

Post by Qimmik »

Lucian couldn't use the word used in the Odyssey for the beggar's staff, σκῆπτρον, because it would yield a metrically impossible sequence of syllables, σκῆπτρα δὲ σκήπτροις. [δ]ὲ σκ[ήπτροις] would be a long/heavy syllable. So he used a synonym, βάκτρα δὲ βάκτροις, which yields a well-formed hexameter. Lucian's parody cleverly preserves the inconsistency of grammatical number and of course the archaic -φιν of the Homeric original.

πήρα is probably better translated into contemporary American English as "bag," and βάκτρα as "sticks."

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