Diocl.Fr.121

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ObsequiousNewt
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Diocl.Fr.121

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Διοκλῆς δ᾽ ὁ Καρύστιος τὸν σικυόν φησι μετὰ σιτίων ἐν πρώτοις λαμβανόμενον ἐνοχλεῖν· φέρεσθαι γὰρ ἄνω καθάπερ τὴν ῥάφανον· τελευταῖον δὲ λαμβανόμενον ἀλυπότερον εἶναι καὶ εὐπεπτότερον· ἑφθὸν δὲ καὶ διουρητικὸν μετρίως ὑπάρχειν.

I can translate this, to the best of my ability, as:

"Diocles of Carystus says the cucumber, taken with grains (in bread?) at first troubles [the stomach], for it is carried upwards (vomited?) just like the cabbage, but the latter is taken more painlessly and more digestible; and boiled first moderately diuretic."

Could someone please fix my translation, and if possible direct me towards a translation of Diocles Medicus' fragments?
εἰς ἄκρον περ ὄρος βραδέως τε μόγις τ' ἀναβαίνων
γῆν ἀποπίπτουσαν ἔκ μεο θηέομαι

Qimmik
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Re: Diocl.Fr.121

Post by Qimmik »

I believe the contrast is between ἐν πρώτοις λαμβανόμενον and τελευταῖον δὲ λαμβανόμενον: cucumber taken at the beginning (of a meal?) and taken at the end.

I would translate: "Diocles of Carystus says that cucumber taken at the beginning (of a meal?) with grains is troublesome, for it is carried up like cabbage, but taken at the end it's more painless and more digestible; [and that] boiled, it's also a mild diuretic."

I don't know of a translation of Diocles.

C. S. Bartholomew
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Re: Diocl.Fr.121

Post by C. S. Bartholomew »

ObsequiousNewt wrote:Διοκλῆς δ᾽ ὁ Καρύστιος τὸν σικυόν φησι μετὰ σιτίων ἐν πρώτοις λαμβανόμενον ἐνοχλεῖν· φέρεσθαι γὰρ ἄνω καθάπερ τὴν ῥάφανον· τελευταῖον δὲ λαμβανόμενον ἀλυπότερον εἶναι καὶ εὐπεπτότερον· ἑφθὸν δὲ καὶ διουρητικὸν μετρίως ὑπάρχειν.
It appears that σιτίων is a conjectural emendation.

Athenaeus Soph.,
Book 3, paragraph 5,

Διοκλῆς δ' ὁ Καρύστιος τὸν σικυόν
φησι μετὰ σίων ἐν πρώτοις λαμβανόμενον ἐνοχλεῖν·
φέρεσθαι γὰρ ἄνω καθάπερ τὴν ῥάφανον· τελευταῖον
δὲ λαμβανόμενον ἀλυπότερον εἶναι καὶ εὐπεπτότερον·
ἑφθὸν δὲ καὶ διουρητικὸν μετρίως ὑπάρχειν.

Perseus has a translation of this by C. D. Yonge, B.A., 1854:
And Diocles of Carystos says that cucumber, if it is eaten with the sium in the first course, makes the eater uncomfortable; for that it gets into the head as the radish does; but that if it is eaten at the end of supper it causes no uncomfortable feelings, and is more digestible; and that when it is boiled it is moderately diuretic.
[1] … ἐνοχλεῖν. φέρεσθαι γὰρ ἄνω acid reflux syndrome aka GERD.
C. Stirling Bartholomew

Qimmik
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Re: Diocl.Fr.121

Post by Qimmik »

LSJ says that ῥάφανος = "cabbage," but also = ῥαφανίς, "radish." Radish would seem more likely to provoke acid reflux (which I think CSB rightly identifies as what Diocles is talking about).

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 8a%2Ffanos

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ObsequiousNewt
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Re: Diocl.Fr.121

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Ah, many thanks.
εἰς ἄκρον περ ὄρος βραδέως τε μόγις τ' ἀναβαίνων
γῆν ἀποπίπτουσαν ἔκ μεο θηέομαι

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