Jokes in Greek

[jeidsath]

This deserves another thread. Markos' pun with his own audio!

μωρὸς, μόνος μολὼν μόλις ἐς μῶλον, μόρον ἐκ μορῶν ἔμμορεν.

(An idiot, coming alone and with difficulty to the battle, received as his lot death from the (Spartan) divisions.)

https://archive.org/details/AJokeInAncientGreek

Some Googling for "ancient Greek jokes" just now led me to discover the Φιλογέλως, which I had never heard of:

https://archive.org/stream/gpachymerisd ... #page/n288

A lot of it seems to be really easy Koine Greek -- maybe on the same level as Aesop's Fables.

I've seen a few of these jokes before. W.H.D. Rouse seems to have used it as a source for Greek Boy and First Greek Course. Over time, I've discovered that a substantial portion of Greek Boy is reworked Greek from unlikely sources. There are parts of the Onomasticon in Greek Boy, and other strange things.

[mwh]

Roger Dawe, no less, editor of the Teubner Sophocles, produced an edition of the Philogelos. I don't suppose he thought the jokes were very funny.

Markos' cleverly contrived line is neither pun nor joke, but don't let me spoil the fun. If his μορῶν were μόρων, now there's a pun ("from mulberries" lol), but evidently he meant μερῶν.

[jeidsath]

You are right, not a pun. A Mother Goose rhyme?

The jokes from Φιλογέλως are very low humor.

The one on pg. 321 (σνʹ) that caught my eye turned out to be a fart joke, once I puzzled out the last two words and looked at the Greek in the footnote -- I need to learn Latin at some point. I'd like to know the tone that footnote is written in.

The original of the fever joke in the other thread is on pg. 304.

On page 286 is one that I've heard in English, more or less: Σχολαστικὸς ἠρώτα τὸν πατέρα ἡ πεντακότυλος λήκυθος πόσον χωρεῖ.

I can't exactly tell what the joke is for ρναʹ on pg. 298. Is it "for the night" or "at night"?

[Markos]

Markos' cleverly contrived line is neither pun nor joke, but don't let me spoil the fun. If his μορῶν were μόρων, now there's a pun ("from mulberries" lol), but evidently he meant μερῶν.

Hi, Michael,

Sure, I like that one. Being an anti-oxidant, τὸν μόρον τὸ μόρον ἀμύνει. But I did indeed mean μορῶν. L.S.J. has ἡ μόρα, for "a division of the Spartan army."

Regardless of what you call them, coming up with these things helps me to internalize Greek. If I ever come across τὸ μόρον in reading, I am more likely now to remember it.

I can't exactly tell what the joke is for ρναʹ on pg. 298. Is it "for the night" or "at night"?

Ευτράπελος, ἰδὼν πορνοβοσκὸν μισθοῦντα μέλαινα ἑταιρίδα, εἶπε "Πόσου τὴν νύκτα μισθοῖς?"

I'm not entirely sure I get the joke either, but I think the idea is that since the pimp has a black prostitute, he has other black goods to rent out, including the night. Not very P.C., but funny enough as far as it goes, if this was indeed the intent.

Thanks for finding this text, Joel. I too have seen excerpts, but it is nice to have the original. "Was it you or your twin brother who died?" on page 272 is generally considered one of the top ten jokes ever.

The jokes from Φιλογέλως are very low humor.

Indeed, and maybe the highest humor ever is the Apology. Every time I read it in Greek, at some point, I laugh out loud. Instead of defending himself, Socrates makes merciless fun of the entire city. I had a teacher one time who said that most of Plato is meant as a joke.

[jeidsath]

I thought that Πόσου τὴν νύκτα μισθοῖς was either "How much do you charge for the night?" -- which didn't make sense since there didn't seem to be a punchline. So I thought that it could be "How much do you charge at night?" instead -- but I think that I would expect τῇ νύκτι for that.

Now that I think about it, I sort of get the punchline for "How much do you charge for the night?" A μέλαινα ἑταιρίδα and τὴν νύκτα are both dark...but that would need Bob Hope-like delivery to get a laugh.

This one is better:

Διδύμων ἀδελφῶν ὁ ἕτερος ἐτελεύτησε, Σχολαστικὸς οὖν προσελθὼν τῷ ζῶντι εἶπε· « Σὺ ἀπέθανες, ἤ ὁ ἀδελφός σου »;

[Markos]

Okay, I just finished reading through page 288, through all of the Σχολαστικός jokes. I agree with Joel; the syntax is quite easy. There are some rare words, a few of which I could not find in L.S.J. Overall, I am surprised at how well these jokes "translate." Humor often doesn't between languages. Maybe the editor pre-screened the jokes for ones that are not too subtle.

I got about 80% of the jokes. With a few of those, maybe, I only thought I got the joke. (For example, joke δ. on p. 264, where I think the idea is the pun on throwing down teeth and throwing down a rider.) I'm sure some of them are funnier if you can pick up on the deeper subtleties of the Greek.

Joke ζη. on p. 287 would require a dynamic equivalence translation for its punch line: "That's what friends are for." ιγ. on p. 268 has an instance of the active of ἀκούω being used as a quasi-passive, (ἵνα μὴ πατραλοῖαι ἀκούσωμεν) which I remember we discussed on another thread. The sickest joke, but arguably the funniest, is με. on p. 276.

That still leaves a few jokes that I did not get. In most cases, I think I understood the Greek okay, but was missing some cultural reference or something. Sometimes, of course, one simply fails to get the joke as one would in English. For a few of the jokes I did get, it took me a while to get them.

[bedwere]

Some of the jokes ended up in the Assimil Greek course.

[jeidsath]

(For example, joke δ. on p. 264, where I think the idea is the pun on throwing down teeth and throwing down a rider.)

I think that it's a variation on the "old horse" joke.

Scholastikos is selling a horse, and he is asked whether the horse is first-struck [has lost its milk-teeth, 2-4 years old]. He replies "Yes, twice-struck." "How can that be?" "I removed its teeth once, and once my father removed them."

[mwh]

Markos as good as got it. The joke, such as it is, turns on the scholasticus’ ignorance of πρωτοβολος as a technical term for an animal’s losing its milk-teeth. It goes:

A scholasticus was selling a horse. Someone asked him if it was “first-thrown.” When he said it was “second-thrown,” he asked “How do you mean?”, and the scholasticus answered “It’s thrown me once and my father once.”

Comedy worthy of the Marx brothers.

And my apologies for thinking that Marx μορῶν was meant to be μερῶν.