Is it worthwhile to spend time with this manuscript until I get comfortable with the script?
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/FullDispla ... d_MS_11884
I can read it, but slowly. I can't tell how much of that is the difficulty of an unknown script or poor handwriting. I am hoping that if I spend time with it, I'll be able to read related scripts. But if there is a better manuscript to start with, please point me in that direction.
Reading manuscripts
- jeidsath
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Reading manuscripts
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Reading manuscripts
I don't necessarily think there's a better, or much better, MS to start with. Even the v. easiest will have problems. Looking over it, it seems to be fairly ok - typical 14/15th century sort of deal really. I'd suggest trying to get hold of a good reference book for hands like Barbour's "Greek Literary Hands, A.D. 400-1600" to check out styles as you go.jeidsath wrote:Is it worthwhile to spend time with this manuscript until I get comfortable with the script?
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/FullDispla ... d_MS_11884
I can read it, but slowly. I can't tell how much of that is the difficulty of an unknown script or poor handwriting. I am hoping that if I spend time with it, I'll be able to read related scripts. But if there is a better manuscript to start with, please point me in that direction.
EDIT: Also ligatures! I think the book I rec'd has them, if not Thompson's "Introduction to Greek and Latin Palaeography" definitely does.
(Occasionally) Working on the following tutorials:
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose
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Re: Reading manuscripts
The handwriting is accomplished and the script straightforward enough once you get used to the letter-forms and compendia (which are usually guessable). Since it’s Xenophon you can quickly solve any difficulties you have. Choose a page where the parchment is clean. But there are many different kinds of script so you might want to sample others too. Earlier ones can be easier but not always.
Here’s a couple of great Homer manuscripts on the same site. I'd never seen images of either before. Isn’t it fantastic to have such images, enlargeable and all! Try the papyri at the Oxyrhynchus Papyri site too.
The Townley Iliad, mid-11th cent., a most important manuscript both for the text and for the scholia:
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.asp ... _86_fs001r
The Harley Odyssey, 13th cent.:
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.asp ... 5674_f002r
Here’s a couple of great Homer manuscripts on the same site. I'd never seen images of either before. Isn’t it fantastic to have such images, enlargeable and all! Try the papyri at the Oxyrhynchus Papyri site too.
The Townley Iliad, mid-11th cent., a most important manuscript both for the text and for the scholia:
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.asp ... _86_fs001r
The Harley Odyssey, 13th cent.:
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.asp ... 5674_f002r
- calvinist
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Re: Reading manuscripts
I've never really tried reading miniscule manuscripts before. I can only make out a few words here and there. I find it ironic that the oldest manuscripts (uncial) are by far the easiest to read, at least for me.
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Re: Reading manuscripts
Minuscule.
Try reading it alongside a modern printed text to start with, taking note of the letter forms and combinations, and it quickly gets much easier. Blow it up to a decent size (but not too big, you want to discern the flow), and start by taking it nice and slow, word by word. Many letters take more than one form, depending on what letters are adjacent to them (note e.g. στ, μεν-, -τερ-); there’s more consistency than may appear at first sight, and you want to register the letter combinations, not just the individual letters. (This is what gives such scripts character, unlike boring blah stiff straitjacketed uncial. They flow.)
It looks as if in this manuscript the words are mostly written out in full, more or less (note e.g. –ων), so there are few of those pesky terminal compendia to deal with. The diacritics help; the better you know your accents, the easier it is to articulate. Remember it all makes sense, and pretty soon you'll be racing along!
The text may not exactly match everywhere. You can see some γρ(άφεται) variants recorded in the margins—the ancient and medieval equivalent of an app.crit.
Try reading it alongside a modern printed text to start with, taking note of the letter forms and combinations, and it quickly gets much easier. Blow it up to a decent size (but not too big, you want to discern the flow), and start by taking it nice and slow, word by word. Many letters take more than one form, depending on what letters are adjacent to them (note e.g. στ, μεν-, -τερ-); there’s more consistency than may appear at first sight, and you want to register the letter combinations, not just the individual letters. (This is what gives such scripts character, unlike boring blah stiff straitjacketed uncial. They flow.)
It looks as if in this manuscript the words are mostly written out in full, more or less (note e.g. –ων), so there are few of those pesky terminal compendia to deal with. The diacritics help; the better you know your accents, the easier it is to articulate. Remember it all makes sense, and pretty soon you'll be racing along!
The text may not exactly match everywhere. You can see some γρ(άφεται) variants recorded in the margins—the ancient and medieval equivalent of an app.crit.
- calvinist
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Re: Reading manuscripts
Gratias tibi, I think I've always spelled it "miniscule" and it seems that is a common misspelling. Barbarus sum! I agree with you that such scripts have more character and are much more beautiful/exotic. Part of the beauty of Greek for me is the slightly exotic nature of the script (from a Latin alphabet perspective). I think it's partly that I'm just not as fluent in Greek as I am in Latin. Even when reading from modern printed texts my ability to recognize words at first glance is much better in Latin than Greek.mwh wrote:Minuscule.
Try reading it alongside a modern printed text to start with, taking note of the letter forms and combinations, and it quickly gets much easier. Blow it up to a decent size (but not too big, you want to discern the flow), and start by taking it nice and slow, word by word. Many letters take more than one form, depending on what letters are adjacent to them (note e.g. στ, μεν-, -τερ-); there’s more consistency than may appear at first sight, and you want to register the letter combinations, not just the individual letters. (This is what gives such scripts character, unlike boring blah stiff straitjacketed uncial. They flow.)
It looks as if in this manuscript the words are mostly written out in full, more or less (note e.g. –ων), so there are few of those pesky terminal compendia to deal with. The diacritics help; the better you know your accents, the easier it is to articulate. Remember it all makes sense, and pretty soon you'll be racing along!
The text may not exactly match everywhere. You can see some γρ(άφεται) variants recorded in the margins—the ancient and medieval equivalent of an app.crit.