κολοκύνθη - Cucurbita maxima

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ἑκηβόλος
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κολοκύνθη - Cucurbita maxima

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

It is said on Wiki that the Cucurbita maxima originated in South America. Is there a more accurate rendering of κολοκύνθη?
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Re: κολοκύνθη - Cucurbita maxima

Post by Scribo »

I had thought maybe kolokythakia, as below, but it turns out they come from the Americas too:

https://www.google.gr/search?q=%CE%BA%C ... oUCh3lbgHW

Unfortunately I'm in transit soon and so don't have time to check, but here is my advice. Do you take hold of a commentary on Seneca's "Ludus de morte Divi Claudii" which more commonly has the title "Ἀποκολοκύνθωσις". I'm sure any commentary will have a brief note on the title and what type of gourd it would have been.

I could be okra, it could be the Egyptian gourd, I don't know, but now I want fried kolokythakia. Good luck.
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Re: κολοκύνθη - Cucurbita maxima

Post by jeidsath »

Some sort of watermelon? They are related to the colocynth, which is κολοκύνθη ἀγρία in your LSJ link.

The LSJ says that σικύα Ἰνδική = κολοκύντη (maybe a Tinda?). And σικύα πικρά = κολοκυνθίς, which sounds a lot like the wild colocynth above.
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Re: κολοκύνθη - Cucurbita maxima

Post by demetri »

Scribo wrote:I had thought maybe kolokythakia, as below, but it turns out they come from the Americas too:

https://www.google.gr/search?q=%CE%BA%C ... oUCh3lbgHW

Unfortunately I'm in transit soon and so don't have time to check, but here is my advice. Do you take hold of a commentary on Seneca's "Ludus de morte Divi Claudii" which more commonly has the title "Ἀποκολοκύνθωσις". I'm sure any commentary will have a brief note on the title and what type of gourd it would have been.

I could be okra, it could be the Egyptian gourd, I don't know, but now I want fried kolokythakia. Good luck.
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Re: κολοκύνθη - Cucurbita maxima

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

Scribo wrote:Do you take hold of a commentary on Seneca's "Ludus de morte Divi Claudii" which more commonly has the title "Ἀποκολοκύνθωσις". I'm sure any commentary will have a brief note on the title and what type of gourd it would have been.
Even the wiki article about the play explains that a little. "Gourdification" or "pumpkinification" are meant as humour rather than a scientific description.
Scribo wrote:I[t] could be okra,
That would be great. The okra I ate yesterday was the left-overs from the day before and I'd be happy enough to have it today and tomorrow too.
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Re: κολοκύνθη - Cucurbita maxima

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

ἑκηβόλος wrote:
Scribo wrote:Do you take hold of a commentary on Seneca's "Ludus de morte Divi Claudii" which more commonly has the title "Ἀποκολοκύνθωσις". I'm sure any commentary will have a brief note on the title and what type of gourd it would have been.
Even the wiki article about the play explains that a little. "Gourdification" or "pumpkinification" are meant as humour rather than a scientific description.
Besides what wiki says, my own thinking is that it is obviously a play on ἀποθέωσις, "deification", meant to be funny, because it uses a vegetable that sounds the closest to the κόλαξ / κολακεύειν / κολακεία "flatterer, fawner" / "to flatter; to be a flatterer" / "flattery" family of words.
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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