A Halloween treat

[mwh]

ἐσθῆτι δὲ χρῶνται ἀραχνίοις λεπτοῖς. αὐτοὶ δὲ σώματα μὲν οὐκ ἔχουσιν, ἀλλ’ ἀναφεῖς καὶ ἄσαρκοί εἰσιν, μορφὴν δὲ καὶ ἰδέαν μόνην ἐμφαίνουσιν, καὶ ἀσώματοι ὄντες ὅμως συνεστᾶσιν καὶ κινοῦνται καὶ φρονοῦσι καὶ φωνὴν ἀφιᾶσιν, καὶ ὅλως ἔοικε γυμνή τις ἡ ψυχὴ αὐτῶν περιπολεῖν τὴν τοῦ σώματος ὁμοιότητα περικειμένη· εἰ γοῦν μὴ ἅψαιτό τις, οὐκ ἂν ἐξελέγξειε μὴ εἶναι σῶμα τὸ ὁρώμενον· εἰσὶ γὰρ ὥσπερ σκιαὶ ὀρθαί.

[Markos]

εἰσὶ γὰρ ὥσπερ σκιαὶ ὀρθαί.

μικρά γλυκέα βρώματα παρέχω ἵνα τούτους ἀποτρέπω. φοβοῦμαι γάρ.

[Paul Derouda]

Creepy! Who are "they"?

[Hylander]

Finns.

[jeidsath]

ἐσθῆτι δὲ χρῶνται ἀραχνίοις λεπτοῖς

μιῇ δὲ ἡμέρῃ ἀπέδυσε πάσας τὰς Κορινθίων γυναῖκας διὰ τὴν ἑωυτοῦ γυναῖκα Μέλισσαν. πέμψαντι γάρ οἱ ἐς Θεσπρωτοὺς ἐπ᾽ Ἀχέροντα ποταμὸν ἀγγέλους ἐπὶ τὸ νεκυομαντήιον παρακαταθήκης πέρι ξεινικῆς οὔτε σημανέειν ἔφη ἡ Μέλισσα ἐπιφανεῖσα οὔτε κατερέειν ἐν τῷ κέεται χώρῳ ἡ παρακαταθήκη: ῥιγοῦν τε γὰρ καὶ εἶναι γυμνή: τῶν γάρ οἱ συγκατέθαψε ἱματίων ὄφελος εἶναι οὐδὲν οὐ κατακαυθέντων: μαρτύριον δέ οἱ εἶναι ὡς ἀληθέα ταῦτα λέγει, ὅτι ἐπὶ ψυχρὸν τὸν ἰπνὸν Περίανδρος τοὺς ἄρτους ἐπέβαλε. ταῦτα δὲ ὡς ὀπίσω ἀπηγγέλθη τῷ Περιάνδρῳ, πιστὸν γάρ οἱ ἦν τὸ συμβόλαιον ὃς νεκρῷ ἐούσῃ Μελίσσῃ ἐμίγη, ἰθέως δὴ μετὰ τὴν ἀγγελίην κήρυγμα ἐποιήσατο ἐς τὸ Ἥραιον ἐξιέναι πάσας τὰς Κορινθίων γυναῖκας. αἳ μὲν δὴ ὡς ἐς ὁρτὴν ἤισαν κόσμῳ τῷ καλλίστῳ χρεώμεναι, ὃ δ᾽ ὑποστήσας τοὺς δορυφόρους ἀπέδυσε σφέας πάσας ὁμοίως, τάς τε ἐλευθέρας καὶ τὰς ἀμφιπόλους, συμφορήσας δὲ ἐς ὄρυγμα Μελίσσῃ ἐπευχόμενος κατέκαιε. ταῦτα δέ οἱ ποιήσαντι καὶ τὸ δεύτερον πέμψαντι ἔφρασε τὸ εἴδωλον τὸ Μελίσσης ἐς τὸν κατέθηκε χῶρον τοῦ ξείνου τὴν παρακαταθήκην.

[mwh]

Creepy! Who are "they"?

To give the game away, they’re the inhabitants of the Isles of the Blest, visited by the Samosatensian after his escape from the whale. He interviews Homer, who assures him he wrote all the lines suspected of being interpolated. (But perhaps he lies, as he is known to do?) The Odyssey’s Nekuia provides a sort of model (filtered through Plato), though not for the cobwebs, which I guess are a riff on the web that Hephaestus spins to ensnare Ares and Aphrodite (Od.8.285 ηυτ’ αραχνια λεπτα, τα γ’ ου κε τις ουδε ιδοιτο).

Now someone will have to explain Hylander’s joke to me. Paul do you get it? If it’s a private joke between the two of you, I call foul.

jeidsath’s is Herodotus of course, if he'll allow me to say.

[Hylander]

"Now someone will have to explain Hylander’s joke to me. Paul do you get it? If it’s a private joke between the two of you, I call foul."

Paul pretends to be Finnish, but his impeccable command of English makes it clear that this is an utter falsehood.

[jeidsath]

jeidsath’s is Herodotus of course, if he'll allow me to say.

Yes, I thought another story about what sort of clothes that the dead wear would complement yours.

I was actually preparing a post on Lucian's True Story when you posted this. I was thinking that it would be fun to do a Let's Read thread in Greek. But I haven't really figured out how best to do it. My hope would be to generate something like this in question and answer:

https://archive.org/details/luciandialoguesnotes

Paul pretends to be Finnish, but his impeccable command of English makes it clear that this is an utter falsehood.

Seconded.

[Paul Derouda]

Actually, I'm Laestrygonian. I live in the Land of the Midnight Sun: ἐγγὺς γὰρ νυκτός τε καὶ ἤματός εἰσι κέλευθοι.

Lucian's true story might fun for a change, I just finished the second book of Herodotus (my progress was slow because I had a number of other things to do).

[Paul Derouda]

I just lighted upon an extremely alarmist headline in the leading Finnish newspaper Helsingin sanomat: "Report says: Finns have the poorest English skills in the Nordic countries". They're citing a report by Ef Education First (Ever heard? Me neither.) http://www.ef.fi/epi/. Finland comes 5th among 70 countries. Sometimes the glass is half empty, I guess.

[mwh]

I was thinking that it would be fun to do a Let's Read thread in Greek. But I haven't really figured out how best to do it. My hope would be to generate something like this in question and answer:

https://archive.org/details/luciandialoguesnotes

The trouble with this idea is that it would only lead to the production of yet more bad Greek. In my view it would be much more worthwhile simply to read the text, and to raise points of interest or difficulty in English. Questions and answers in our own would-be Greek are liable to be puerile and/or illiterate, or else not accurately understood; not to mention taking time away from reading the Greek. I think we’d do well to confine our home-made Greek to the “Composition, Discussions & Debate” forum.

For beginning-intermediate readers Evans/Nimis looks very serviceable, and I think the True History is a good text to use for the purpose. Do not on any account use Jerram.

[Hylander]

"Finns have the poorest English skills in the Nordic countries."

The reason for this is probably that, unlike the other Nordic languages, Finnish is not genetically related to English. But Finnish does rank high in English proficiency in the rest of the non-Anglophone world. And the Finnish education system is reputedly superb.

[daivid]

I was thinking that it would be fun to do a Let's Read thread in Greek. But I haven't really figured out how best to do it. My hope would be to generate something like this in question and answer:

https://archive.org/details/luciandialoguesnotes

The trouble with this idea is that it would only lead to the production of yet more bad Greek. In my view it would be much more worthwhile simply to read the text, and to raise points of interest or difficulty in English. Questions and answers in our own would-be Greek are liable to be puerile and/or illiterate, or else not accurately understood; not to mention taking time away from reading the Greek. I think we’d do well to confine our home-made Greek to the “Composition, Discussions & Debate” forum.

I agree 100%. When I resort to notes for a Greek author it is because I am struggling. To be given notes in Greek is a good way of ensuring that I drown.

For beginning-intermediate readers Evans/Nimis looks very serviceable, and I think the True History is a good text to use for the purpose. Do not on any account use Jerram.

At the moment I have notes for several authors other than Lucian and have so no more than sampled & Hayes but they do indeed seem very helpful.

[jeidsath]

Maybe a Let's Read thread where we endeavor to give usage examples rather than (just) grammar explanations? I just don't like it when it devolves into quotations of rules.

[mwh]

Fine by me. Examples are very useful indeed, so long as one understands what it is they’re exemplifying, i.e. the applicable “rules." What we might think of as rules are not prescriptive, after all, but merely descriptive of usage.