Plato, Apology of Socrates, 32c-d:
ἐπειδὴ δὲ ὀλιγαρχία ἐγένετο, οἱ τριάκοντα αὖ μεταπεμψάμενοί με πέμπτον αὐτὸν εἰς τὴν θόλον προσέταξαν ἀγαγεῖν ἐκ Σαλαμῖνος Λέοντα τὸν Σαλαμίνιον ἵνα ἀποθάνοι, οἷα δὴ καὶ ἄλλοις ἐκεῖνοι πολλοῖς πολλὰ προσέταττον, βουλόμενοι ὡς πλείστους ἀναπλῆσαι αἰτιῶν. τότε μέντοι ἐγὼ οὐ λόγῳ ἀλλ᾽ ἔργῳ αὖ ἐνεδειξάμην ὅτι ἐμοὶ θανάτου μὲν μέλει, εἰ μὴ ἀγροικότερον ἦν εἰπεῖν, οὐδ᾽ ὁτιοῦν, τοῦ δὲ μηδὲν ἄδικον μηδ᾽ ἀνόσιον ἐργάζεσθαι,τούτου δὲ τὸ πᾶν μέλει. ἐμὲ γὰρ ἐκείνη ἡ ἀρχὴ οὐκ ἐξέπληξεν, οὕτως ἰσχυρὰ οὖσα, ὥστε ἄδικόν τι ἐργάσασθαι, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπειδὴ ἐκ τῆς θόλου ἐξήλθομεν, οἱ μὲν τέτταρες ᾤχοντο εἰς Σαλαμῖνα καὶ ἤγαγον Λέοντα, ἐγὼ δὲ ᾠχόμην ἀπιὼν οἴκαδε. καὶ ἴσως ἂν διὰ ταῦτα ἀπέθανον, εἰ μὴ ἡ ἀρχὴ διὰ ταχέων κατελύθη.
The Thirty ordered Socrates with four other men, to bring Leo of Salamis back from Salamis to them so that he could be put to death. They ordered many others to commit crimes in groups, in order to spread culpability as widely as possible. The other four men went to Salamis and brought Leo back, but Socrates just went home.
Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 others"
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 2504
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm
Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 others"
Last edited by Hylander on Thu May 19, 2016 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Walderman
- jeidsath
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 5332
- Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
- Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν
Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x other
Nice idiom. I suppose that without the αυτον it would say that he was sent for five times?
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 2504
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm
Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x other
I'm not sure it would make much sense without αυτον. "Five times" would be πεμπτακις, wouldn't it? And πεμπταιον would be "on the fifth day" or something like that.
Bill Walderman
-
- Textkit Enthusiast
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:23 pm
Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 oth
As I believe Hylander has mentioned elsewhere, there are various examples of this idiom in Thucydides (I did make a list of them at one point, but have unfortunately mislaid it). Sir Kenneth Dover wrote a paper entitled 'ΔΕΚΑΤΟΣ ΑΥΤΟΣ' about whether that phrase (which is applied to Pericles in Thucydides 1.116.1 and 2.13.1) implies any sort of superiority on the part of Pericles over the other nine generals (Dover's view is that it was in fact intended to remind us that he did not possess such superiority). The paper originally appeared in the Journal of Hellenic Studies lxxx (1960), and was reprinted in Dover's The Greeks and their Legacy (Basil Blackwell, 1988).
- mahasacham
- Textkit Member
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:05 am
- Contact:
Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 oth
Its so funny because I was just struggling over this idiom while reading Chariton's "De Chaerea et Callirhoe". This example is from the section describing Teron, the tomb robber, breaking into Callirhoe's tomb.
Τέσσαρας μὲν ἀπέστειλεν ἐπὶ κατασκοπήν, εἴ τινες προσίοιεν εἰς τὸν τόπον, εἰ μὲν δύναιντο, φονεύειν: εἰ δὲ μή, συνθήματι μηνύειν τὴν ἄφιξιν αὐτῶν: πέμπτος δὲ αὐτὸς προσῄει τῷ τάφῳ. Τοὺς δὲ λοιποὺς ῾ἦσαν γὰρ οἱ σύμπαντες ἑκκαίδεκἀ μένειν ἐπὶ τοῦ κέλητος ἐκέλευσε καὶ τὰς κώπας ἔχειν ἐπτερωμένας, ἵνα, ἐάν τι αἰφνίδιον συμβαίνῃ, ταχέως τοὺς ἀπὸ γῆς ἁρπάσαντες ἀποπλεύσωσιν.
πέμπτος δὲ αὐτὸς προσῄει τῷ τάφῳ. ==> himself being the fifth out of a group of five approached the grave.
In my edition, which is the new translation, the editor added "ἐπτά" to the "Τοὺς δὲ λοιποὺς" to make the math come out right in light of the further account of there being assistants at the tomb entrance instead of just Teron himself (if it was just Teron himself at the tomb, the number of the "λοιποὺς" would be 11).
When I first read the idiom I was sure that the idiom just meant that he was the fifth person that left the boat....especially because of the singular verb that follows but now I realize that there were indeed two groups (one on the look out and another that would break into the tomb) and Teron was the fifth person in this second group of five. 9 on shore and 7 in the boat.
Τέσσαρας μὲν ἀπέστειλεν ἐπὶ κατασκοπήν, εἴ τινες προσίοιεν εἰς τὸν τόπον, εἰ μὲν δύναιντο, φονεύειν: εἰ δὲ μή, συνθήματι μηνύειν τὴν ἄφιξιν αὐτῶν: πέμπτος δὲ αὐτὸς προσῄει τῷ τάφῳ. Τοὺς δὲ λοιποὺς ῾ἦσαν γὰρ οἱ σύμπαντες ἑκκαίδεκἀ μένειν ἐπὶ τοῦ κέλητος ἐκέλευσε καὶ τὰς κώπας ἔχειν ἐπτερωμένας, ἵνα, ἐάν τι αἰφνίδιον συμβαίνῃ, ταχέως τοὺς ἀπὸ γῆς ἁρπάσαντες ἀποπλεύσωσιν.
πέμπτος δὲ αὐτὸς προσῄει τῷ τάφῳ. ==> himself being the fifth out of a group of five approached the grave.
In my edition, which is the new translation, the editor added "ἐπτά" to the "Τοὺς δὲ λοιποὺς" to make the math come out right in light of the further account of there being assistants at the tomb entrance instead of just Teron himself (if it was just Teron himself at the tomb, the number of the "λοιποὺς" would be 11).
When I first read the idiom I was sure that the idiom just meant that he was the fifth person that left the boat....especially because of the singular verb that follows but now I realize that there were indeed two groups (one on the look out and another that would break into the tomb) and Teron was the fifth person in this second group of five. 9 on shore and 7 in the boat.
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 2504
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm
Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 oth
Thanks for letting me know this was helpful, mahasacham. And thanks to John W. for noting Dover's discussion.
Bill
Bill
Bill Walderman
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 2504
- Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm
Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 oth
I should have added a link to this recent thread:
http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... =2&t=65010
http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... =2&t=65010
Bill Walderman
- Paul Derouda
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 2292
- Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:39 pm
Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 oth
Thanks for the example, which shows that I've seen this idiom many times before. Only somehow in the Herodotus passage the idiom was, if one may say so, even more idiomatic!