carrying and sending to: εἰς + acc. v bare dative

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truks
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carrying and sending to: εἰς + acc. v bare dative

Post by truks »

Working my way through Mastronarde, I came across this sentence in the exercises to chapter 8:

ὁ δεσπότης τοὺς δούλους εἰς τὴν ἱέρειαν πέμπει, καὶ τὰ παιδία τὰ ἱερὰ ἐκ τῆς σκηνῆς φέρει. [answer provided in the key]
The master sends his slaves to the priestess, and the children carry the offerings out of the tent.

The exercises in this chapter also contain this sentence:

ὦ νεανίαι, φέρετε τὰ δῶρα τοῖς ἀξίοις. [also from the key]
Young men, carry the gifts to or for the worthy men.

Similarly, chapter 14 has this sentence:
μετὰ ταῦτα ὕδωρ φέρουσιν οἱ γέροντες τοῖς νεανίαις οἳ ὑπὲρ τῆς πατρίδος μάχονται.
After this, the old men carry water to the young men who are fighting on behalf of the fatherland.

Is there a difference in meaning (however slight) between the use of εἰς and the accusative and that of the bare dative to express to whom someone is sending someone or something?

Does the dative imply more the idea of 'for' someone, or for his or her benefit?

Or is the difference that slaves (animate) are being sent, rather than gifts or water (inanimate), as in the last two sentences?

Something else?

I've checked Smyth but haven't been able to find a definite answer.

Any help much appreciated,
truks


EDIT: Mastronarde contains a few other sentences in which πέμπω also takes a bare dative, as φέρω does in the last two I mentioned.
Last edited by truks on Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hylander
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Re: carrying and sending to: εἰς + acc. v bare dative

Post by Hylander »

εἰς + acc. is used of a place or a building. It translates most closely as English "into" and it would be strange to use it of a person.

The dative without preposition (the indirect object) can be used to mean "to" a person. In some circumstances προς + accusative could also be used with φερειν to mean "bring something to someone" -- meaning something like "to lay at someone's feet". But I think for your purposes the dative without preposition will do for now.

As you progress in Greek, you'll find you will need to learn the specific complements or arguments of a verb as you learn the verb. They're often quite different from what you would expect from English, and they may vary from author to author or by period or dialect. A good dictionary will provide the information. The big Liddell Scott Jones dictionary dictionary is best for this, but somewhat hard to use for someone at an elementary stage. Next best is the intermediate LIddell & Scott, which would probably be easier to use. Both can be accessed on line without charge here, but you have to follow the instructions to input words successfully:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/res ... irect=true

When you enter φέρω as "fe/rw", this is what you get:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/res ... lang=greek

Click on either "LSJ" or "Middle Liddell"; don't bother with the others.

In the large LSJ, you'll find this:
2. bring, offer, present, “δῶρα” Od.8.428, etc.; “μέλος” Pi.P.2.3; “χοάς τινι” A.Ch.487; “φ. πέπλον δώρημά τινι” S.Tr.602; “πρός τινα δῶρα” X.An.7.3.31; χάριν τινὶ φ. grant any one a favour, do him a kindness, Il.5.211, Od.5.307, al.; “ἐπὶ ἦρα φ. τινί” Il.1.572, Od.3.164, etc.; φ. τισὶ εὐνοίας, ὄνησιν ἀστοῖς, A.Supp. 489, S.OC287; but after Hom., χάριν τινὶ φ. show gratitude to him, Pi.O.10(11).17; μῆνιν φ. τινί cherish wrath against . . A.Niob. in PSI11.1208.12.
We have examples of τινι (dative without preposition) from several authors and πρός τινα in Xenophon's Anabasis. Generally, look for 5th and 4th century Attic authors. You'll also have to know the declension of τις, τι ("someone," "something"), which you can find somewhere in Mastronarde.

Hope this is useful and not too confusing.
Bill Walderman

truks
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Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:01 pm

Re: carrying and sending to: εἰς + acc. v bare dative

Post by truks »

Many thanks, Hylander, for the detailed explanation. Much clearer now. :)

I use Perseus for Latin quite a lot, and will be using it more for Greek now as I make headway, fingers crossed.

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