Confusion about elisions

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malolosgreencat
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Confusion about elisions

Post by malolosgreencat »

In Lesson 2 of "First Greek Book" it says regarding elisions that "A short final vowel may be dropped when the next word begins with a vowel, whether this has the rough or the smooth breathing. This is called elision. An apostrophe marks the omission. Thus ἐπ'αὐτόν, against him, for ἐπι αὐτόν."

My questions are the following:

1) Is this final vowel being dropped only in writing, or is it also dropped in talking? As in am I also supposed to say "Ep auton" when I speak or also say the dropped vowel if I speak, as in "Epi Auton"

2) In transcribing Attic Greek words with the English alphabet, as in having my character speak Attic...is the elision supposed to be even pointed out when we are typing it with English letters?

3) Is it a case of every word can be "elision'ed" or is it only a few specific ones?

C. S. Bartholomew
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Re: Confusion about elisions

Post by C. S. Bartholomew »

The vowel is dropped in speech which is why you find it written that way. Modern Novelists (American English) who attempt to mimic dialogue create headaches for their editors since there is no standard way of abbreviating words. It depends on local local custom and individual habits.
C. Stirling Bartholomew

mwh
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Re: Confusion about elisions

Post by mwh »

1) It’s dropped in talking too, in fact more than in writing. επι αυτον always represents επ’αυτον (and would be better written so).

2) You could type the elision, e.g. ep’auton.

3) Almost all final short vowels can be elided. There are exceptions (e.g. περι) but not many.

Final long vowels, rather than being elided, can coalesce with a following vowel to make a single long vowel or diphthong, e.g. και εκεινος becomes κᾳκεινος or κακεινος (long alpha), and ὁ ἀνήρ becomes ἁνήρ (rough breathing and again long alpha).

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Paul Derouda
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Re: Confusion about elisions

Post by Paul Derouda »

mwh wrote:ὁ ἀνήρ becomes ἁνήρ (rough breathing and again long alpha).
Just passing by to note that ὁ isn't of course a long vowel, so some other rule must apply here. (mwh must have been writing in a hurry...)

Timothée
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Re: Confusion about elisions

Post by Timothée »

The way I have learnt it (whether right or wrong) is that in crasi iota subscriptum is marked when it’s the last of the crasisising vowels. If correct, then it should be κἀκεῖνος and not κᾀκεῖνος. However, this rule I mentioned could be prescriptive.

I think that μοι (beside με) can elide to μ’, at least in some writers.

mwh
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Re: Confusion about elisions

Post by mwh »

Paul, you got me. Substitute του ανδρος > τανδρος (long alpha). That and ἁνηρ are both crasis, of course, which the OP hasn't reached yet. I should have just answered his questions.

Timo, I don’t know how much value such prescriptions carry. No-one ever prints κᾳκεινος (perhaps rightly), but all the conventional spellings are only approximations at best, surely (and prodelision can further confuse the picture, if you believe in that).
μοι could be elided in epic (though normally it’s correpted) but not in Attic.

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