Frederick Field’s Origenis Hexaplorum quae supersunt contains the extant fragments from the Hexapla. The text of Psalm 58:14 reads:
Can anyone translate the Α (Aquila), Θ (Theodoton), and Σ (Symmachus) parts of the verse?
What is the nominative case of the word teleson in the A part?
Translation of the Α, Θ, and Σ Parts at Psalm 58:14 in the H
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:48 pm
-
- Textkit Enthusiast
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:34 pm
Re: Translation of the Α, Θ, and Σ Parts at Psalm 58:14 in t
It’s of course trivial to say, but they are all pretty much the same. You can follow the Hebrew, the Latin or the Greek versions as you like best or compare, as’d seem to interest you. I’m not sure however that the more the versions the better one always understands the text, but sometimes rather the opposite. (This is not to be taken that different translations cannot sometimes reveal something extra, in the case of the Old Testament a different Hebrew original. This is particularly clear in many places of the Septuagint, and a theologian friend of mine has half-jokingly said that he wishes there weren’t the bloody Septuagint as it complicates matters that would be so much clearer without it.)
Τέλεσον is a verb, an imperative from τελεῖν.
Τέλεσον is a verb, an imperative from τελεῖν.
- jeidsath
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 5342
- Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
- Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν
Re: Translation of the Α, Θ, and Σ Parts at Psalm 58:14 in t
Though it wasn't the question asked, the first translation Ο from the Septuagint does seem to be rather different from Α and Σ here.
And out of a curse and a lie the ones to be consummated (?) shall be given notice
in a rage of consummation, that they may no longer be.
I have no idea at all whether this difference reflects a difference in the underlying text.
Something like this, though I haven't read the rest of the psalm:καὶ ἐξ ἀρᾶς καὶ ψεύδους διαγγελήσονται συντέλειαι
ἐν ὀργῇ συντελείας, καὶ οὐ μὴ ὑπάρξωσιν·
And out of a curse and a lie the ones to be consummated (?) shall be given notice
in a rage of consummation, that they may no longer be.
I have no idea at all whether this difference reflects a difference in the underlying text.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
-
- Textkit Enthusiast
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:34 pm
Re: Translation of the Α, Θ, and Σ Parts at Psalm 58:14 in t
The Hebrew here is quite simple, though nothing is ever that simple with the Bible as you’ll know.
The same piʿʿel imperative twice from the root כלה (in qal ‘to come to an end’), the meaning being ‘to bring to an end’. It can also mean ‘to consume’, which the Latin translation has. חמה (sorry, no niqqudim) can mean either ‘venom’ or ‘wrath’, and the last word in the first row means quite literally ‘their non-existence’, here used practically as ‘so that they will cease to exist’, i.e. in essence as a consecutive perfect. This thus for instance ‘bring to an end by wrath, bring to an end so that they will cease to exist’.
The second Hebrew row has very little: it means ‘to the ends of the world/earth. Selah’. Selah is a word met in psalms the meaning of which isn’t quite clear (probably it told something about how it was supposed to be performed).
This is of course only a portion of the verse Ps 59:14 (its beginning and end, the middle of the verse not being here). The Greek cited by Joel starts from the previous verse.
The same piʿʿel imperative twice from the root כלה (in qal ‘to come to an end’), the meaning being ‘to bring to an end’. It can also mean ‘to consume’, which the Latin translation has. חמה (sorry, no niqqudim) can mean either ‘venom’ or ‘wrath’, and the last word in the first row means quite literally ‘their non-existence’, here used practically as ‘so that they will cease to exist’, i.e. in essence as a consecutive perfect. This thus for instance ‘bring to an end by wrath, bring to an end so that they will cease to exist’.
The second Hebrew row has very little: it means ‘to the ends of the world/earth. Selah’. Selah is a word met in psalms the meaning of which isn’t quite clear (probably it told something about how it was supposed to be performed).
This is of course only a portion of the verse Ps 59:14 (its beginning and end, the middle of the verse not being here). The Greek cited by Joel starts from the previous verse.
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:48 pm
Re: Translation of the Α, Θ, and Σ Parts at Psalm 58:14 in t
Thank you for explaining the parts of the verse. I wanted to know whether the word τέλεσον is a form of the noun τέλος (“end”). But it is apparently from the verb τελέω (“complete; fulfill; bring to an end”). I am comparing the passages from LXX with the parallel verses in Aquila’s, Theodotion’s, and Symmachus’ texts to see whether there are instances when one version uses the word συντέλεια, whereas another version uses the word τέλος. Some say that συντέλεια cannot have the same meaning as τέλος.
Can the words be used interchangeably in some contexts? (Although συντέλεια appears to be more forceful than τέλος and can mean “complete end; total end; consummation,” it appears to be used interchangeably with τέλος at Matthew 24:3, 6, 14.)
Can the words be used interchangeably in some contexts? (Although συντέλεια appears to be more forceful than τέλος and can mean “complete end; total end; consummation,” it appears to be used interchangeably with τέλος at Matthew 24:3, 6, 14.)