The Little Prince...in Ancient Greek

[Markos]

σελ. 85: ἀγαθόν ἐστιν φίλον σχεῖν, καὶ εἰ ἀποθανούμεθα.

καλόν τὸ φιλῆσαι καὶ τὸν θανεῖν μέλλοντα.

σελ. 35: ἡ τῶν δακρύων χώρα οὕτω κρυφαῖόν ἐστιν.

μυστήριόν τι ἡ γῆ ἡ κλαίουσα.

ἴσως οὖν τὸ χώρα ἐνθάδε τὰς φρένας σημαίνει ὡς οὐ φανερὰς, ἀλλὰ κεκρυμμένας, ἅτε οὐσῶν αὐτῶν ἀνακινήσεων γεννητικῶν;

ἀληθῆ λέγεις. τὰ γὰρ δάκρυα οὐκ ἐξ ὀφθαλμῶν, ἀλλ' ἐκ φρενῶν.

[mwh]

σελ. 85: ἀγαθόν ἐστιν φίλον σχεῖν, καὶ εἰ ἀποθανούμεθα.

καλόν τὸ φιλῆσαι καὶ τὸν θανεῖν μέλλοντα.

“Kissing even one who is to die is fine.” ?! That's no paraphrase.

(And θανεῖν should be ἀποθανεῖν or better ἀποθανεῖσθαι.)

[daivid]

My amazon review, which partly addresses the comments of Daivid and Tugodum on Coderch's style:

https://www.amazon.com/Little-Prince-An ... ient+greek

The point of reading modern ancient Greek is that it is more comprehensible and so easier to internalize what you are reading. Or to put it another way the language part of your brain doesn't give up and you don't have to fall back on the analytical part of your brain.

But is this really easier than say the Ephesian Tale of Anthia and Habrocomes
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... hapter%3D1

For me the Ephesian tale is a bit easier. I do need something that is easier than the Ephesian tale but if I have to struggle with something that's too difficult for me then something from the extant texts is preferable to modern Ancient Greek.

So if modern ancient Greek is not simpler than the easiest of the extant texts, what's the point?

[Tugodum]

So if modern ancient Greek is not simpler than the easiest of the extant texts, what's the point?

For me, the point is that the Ephesian Tale was not unreasonably characterized by its translator as "a specimen of penny dreadful literature in antiquity," whereas the Little Prince is, in Markos' concise formulation, to which I fully subscribe, "one of the greatest specimens of literature ever produced. Sad, iconic, wise, devastatingly satiric, it is a credo to anyone who has loved and lost and suffered and has been in need of a sheep or a slow walk towards a fountain." Reading it is, for me, much more than a mere linguistic exercise.

[Tugodum]

διὰ τί οὖν ποτε ἀπέλιπον τὸ βασιλείδιον τὴν ἀνθεμίδα, καίτοι τὴν φιλίαν αὐτῷ ἁπλῶς ὁμολογήσασαν; τί ἂν λέγοιτε;

[Tugodum]

I would perfectly understand if nobody responds to this one and apologize in advance to those annoyed yet be grateful should someone answer: what is the force of "δοξαν" in "δοξαν σοι απελθειν, απελθε" (p. 43)?

[mwh]

See the beginning of your Accusative Absolute thread, your δεον question. δοξαν is neuter accusative (or nom.) aorist participle. Impersonal verbs use acc.abs. instead of gen.abs. Here (without looking at the context) I expect it will be more or less equivalent to εαν δοξῃ σοι.

Cf. the Dylan classic, If you gotta go, go now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgQq44BelM

[Tugodum]

Wow... Mea stultitia... Thanks a lot!

[Tugodum]

My apologies again: what might ὀρῶς stand for? TLG does not know this form, found in a marginalia on p. 45: ψελλιζω = "ὀρῶς εκφωνειν ου δυναμαι." Could it be ὀρθῶς?

[mwh]

Presumably so.

[Tugodum]

Thanks!

[Markos]

διὰ τί οὖν ποτε ἀπέλιπον τὸ βασιλείδιον τὴν ἀνθεμίδα, καίτοι τὴν φιλίαν αὐτῷ ἁπλῶς ὁμολογήσασαν; τί ἂν λέγοιτε;

καλὸν ἐρώτημα τούτ ἐστιν.

νομίζω ἔγωγε ὅτι μωρὸς ἦν τὸ βασιλείδιον. τούτῳ γὰρ εἶπε ἡ ἀνθεμίς "ἀπελθέ!" ἀλλ' οὐκ ἔδει τοῦτον ἀκούειν τῆς ἀνθεμίδος. μόνον ἔδει βλέπειν αὐτὴν καὶ ὀσφραίνεσθαι αὐτῆς. νέος δ' ἦν ὁ παῖς.

The point of reading modern ancient Greek is that it is more comprehensible and so easier to internalize what you are reading. Or to put it another way the language part of your brain doesn't give up and you don't have to fall back on the analytical part of your brain.

But is this really easier than say the Ephesian Tale of Anthia and Habrocomes
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... hapter%3D1

χαῖρε, φίλε Δαιυίδ.

Aside from the fact that some of us are super-familiar with the original, which makes the text singularly comprehensible, yes, τὸ βασιλείδιον is easier than the Ephesian Tale, IF YOU INCLUDE CODERCH's monolingual notes. As you yourself pointed out, while he does use rare vocab, about 75% of the time, his notes give you a very easy rendering of the meaning. While he does occasionally use complex syntax, 50% of the time he gives you a simple L2 paraphrase of that syntax which is very easy. In fact, his notes use what Buth calls an "inter-language." L 2 Inter-languages, by their definition designed to help teach languages, are by nature easier than real L2. One could re-write τὸ βασιλείδιον simply by incorporating Coderch's notes into the text, and supplementing the 25% of the time where he does not provide helps with more helps, using his own method as your model. This resultant text would, I think, be easier than anything written in Ancient Greek.

I concede your point that Coderch's text could have been easier if he used a more simple style, closer to Saint-Exupery's. But for intermediate students, τὸ βασιλείδιον is still very easy, artful as far as it goes, and difficult enough to improve one's Greek. I for one love it.

On the other hand, I have in on good authority that Christophe Rico is planning on writing his own Greek version. As you know, Rico writes (and speaks!) a simple, wonderfully clear Koine, and his version is likely to please you. Reading Rico's text, along with having grandchildren and seeing the President get reelected in 2020, are all that remain on Markos' bucket list.

So if modern ancient Greek is not simpler than the easiest of the extant texts, what's the point?

1. Well, for me regardless of the text, I will read anything Coderch writes because I am such a fan of his Orberg-like monolingual method. Some of us have been waiting for a book like this for years.
2. As Tugodum says, if you love the underlying text, you will want to read it no matter how hard it is. I have never read Andrew Wilson's ΑΡΕΙΟΣ ΠΟΤΗΡ, not because it is hard (which it is) but because that particular Ur text does not interest me, as the Little Prince obviously does. I guess it's not one of your favorites?

Reading it is, for me, much more than a mere linguistic exercise.

κἀμοι, φίλτατε.

[Markos]

σελ. 99: ἐνθάδε πάρεστι...πάντα τετέλεσται...

ἰδοῦ...ἱκανόν ἐστιν...
γένοιτο δὴ ταῦτα...ἀρκεῖ γὰρ ἡμῖν...
ἀπέχει...ἡ γὰρ ὥρα ἦλθεν...
καλῶς...τοῦτ' ἐστι τὸ ὅλον...

σελ. 99: οὐκ ἐψόφησεν οὐδέν, τῆς ψάμμου ἕνεκα....

ἡσύχως ἔπεσε. αὐτὸν γὰρ ἐδέχθη ἡ κουφὴ γῆ.

σελ. 102: γράψατέ μοι ταχέως ὅτι ἐπανῆλθεν...

εὐθὺς ἄγγειλον σύγε τὴν τοῦ βασιλειδίου παρουσίαν!

[Markos]

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 14:

1. τοῦτο τὸ βιβλίον ἀνέγνω ὁ κυβερνήτης ὅτε ἑξέτης ἦν.
2. εἰκόνα τινὰ ἐποίησεν ὄφεώς τινος.
3. πῖλόν τι βλέπουσιν ἐν τῷ διαγράμματι οἱ γέροντες.
4. οὗτως οἱ τελεῖοι ἄνθρωποι συνεβούλευσαν.
5. ἔμαθε τὸ ἐν τῷ ἀεροσκάφει πέτεσθαι.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 19:

1. ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ τῆς Σαχάρας ἐδυστύχησεν ὁ κυβερνήτης.
2. πρῷ ἐφάνη τὸ βασιλείδιον.
3. ἀγνοῦ ἐπιθυμεῖ ὁ μικρὸς ἄρχων. τούτου γὰρ δεῖται.
4. διέγραψεν τούτῳ διάγραμμα ὃ δείκνυσι τὸν ἀγνόν.
5. ἐν τῷ διαγράμματι τῷ δεικνύντι τὸν ἀγνὸν ἐν θήκῃ εὐδόκησε τὸ βασιλείδιον.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 21:

1. ἐξ οὐρανοῦ ἔπεσεν ὁ παῖς.
2. οἰκία λίαν μικρὰ τῷ βασιλειδίῳ ἦν.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 26:

1. τοῖς μακροῖς πλανητοῖς ὀνόματα δίδομεν.
2. τὸ τοῦ βασιλειδίου πλανητὸν πρῶτον ἀστρόνομος Τοῦρκός τις εἶδε.
3. φοροῦντι ἱμάτιον κακὸν οὐδεὶς ἐπίστευσε τῷ ἀστρονόμῳ.
4. ἐσθῆσι χρωμένῳ Εὐρωπαίαις νῦν πάντες πεπιστεύκασι τῷ ἀστρονόμῳ.
5. ἐν ἀριθμοῖς οἱ ἐν πνεύματι γέροντες εὐδοκοῦσιν.

[daivid]

On the other hand, I have in on good authority that Christophe Rico is planning on writing his own Greek version. As you know, Rico writes (and speaks!) a simple, wonderfully clear Koine, and his version is likely to please you.

That is very good news. I hope he doesn't feel it's not needed because someone else has produced a version.

1. Well, for me regardless of the text, I will read anything Coderch writes because I am such a fan of his Orberg-like monolingual method. Some of us have been waiting for a book like this for years.

I don't think the issue is whether the reader can stay in Ancient Greek but whether they can keep relating the text with the language part of their brain. Looking up a word for the English meaning will bounce you into the analytical part of your brain but the same will also happen if a text is too difficult. Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata works because the underlying text is sufficiently easy that the monolingual support is sufficient. Coderch to my mind has junked the most important part (keep it easy) while keeping the part that is secondary - provide monolingual support.

2. As Tugodum says, if you love the underlying text, you will want to read it no matter how hard it is. I have never read Andrew Wilson's ΑΡΕΙΟΣ ΠΟΤΗΡ, not because it is hard (which it is) but because that particular Ur text does not interest me, as the Little Prince obviously does. I guess it's not one of your favorites?

I have never read the Little Prince but that is a plus because it is better to read something fresh than going over old ground. But it is too difficult for me. On the other hand the Ephesian tale is a window into Greek attitudes. And it is written by a native speaker. Having a text to read that is for me comprehensible in the true sense of the word far outweighs the risk that someone like Coderch or Ricco might write something that is quite the way Xenophon would have put it. But if there are two texts of equal difficulty then the native speaker written one will win every time. And to be honest Coderch is for me even harder that the Ephesian tale.
(And all he had to do was be true to the original!! )

But I do see why you see it differently.

[Markos]

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 30:

1. οἱ Βαοβάβοι εἰσὶ κακὰ δένδρα καὶ μεγάλλα. λέγουσι δέ τινες ὅτι οἱ Βαοβάβοι οἱ Νάζις ἀλληγορούμενοί εἰσι.
2. αὐξανόμενοι, πάντα τε καὶ πάντας ἀποκτείνουσι οὗτοι.
3. ἀνθρωπός τις ἀργὸς καὶ ἄπονος, ᾧ ἐργάζεσθαι οὐκ ἀρέσκει, τριῶν θάμνων ἠμέλησε.
4. ἵνα διδάσκῃ τοὺς παῖδας περὶ τοῦ τῶν Βαοβάβων κινδύνου τούτους διέγραψε.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 32:

1. τὸ θεᾶσθαι τὸν ἥλιον δύντα ἤρεσκει τῷ μικρῷ ἄρχοντι.
2. ἔδει τὸ βασιλείδιον, θέλοντα ἰδεῖν τὴν τοῦ ἡλίου δυσμήν, τὴν καθέδραν κινεῖν.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 36:

1. ἔμελλε αὐτῷ τῆς τοῦ ἀεροσκάφους βλάβης. περὶ δὲ τῆς τοῦ ὕδατος χρείας πολὺ ἐφρόντιζε.
2. ἐρωτήμασι πολλοῖς ἐνώχλησε τῷ κυβερνήτῃ ὁ μικρὸς ἄρχων.


ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 40:

1. τῇ τοῦ ἠλίου ἀνατολῇ τὴν ἀνθεμίδα τὸ βασιλείδιον εἶδε.
2. ἄκοσμον εἶναι εἶπεν αὕτη.
3. ἀριστᾶν ἐθέλησε τὸ ῥόδον.
4. ἄνεμοι μικροὶ φοβεῖ αὐτήν.
5. τοῦτο τὸ ἐρώτημα οὐ συνῆκα.


ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 43:

1. τὸ πλανητὸν ἐκόσμησε καὶ τὸ ῥόδον διηκόνησε.
2. τὸν ἔρωτα αὐτῆς καὶ τὴν φιλίαν καὶ τὴν ἀγάπην ἐκφωνεῖ. τὴν δὲ μωρίαν.


ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 49:

1. τὸ πρώτον πλανητὸν ὑπὸ βασιλέως τινὸς ᾠκεῖτο.
2. ὁ πειθόμενος ἀρέσκει τῷ βασιλεῖ.
3. πολλοὺς μὲν ὑπηκόους νομίζει ὁ βασιλεὺς ἔχειν. οὐδένα δὲ τῷ ὄντι ἔχει.
4. μόνα ἃ ἄνθρωποι ποιῆσαι δύνανται κελεύει ὁ βασιλεύς.


ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 51:

1.ἐν τῷ δευτέρῳ πλανητῷ ᾤκησε ἄνθρωπός τις νομίζων πάντας ἑαυτόν θαυμάζειν.
2.ἐν ἐπαίνῳ χαίρει ὁ Βασιλεύς.
3.χεῖρα πρὸς χεῖρα ἔτυψε τὸ βασιλείδιον.

But I do see why you see it differently.

πῶς γὰρ οὔ? τοῦτον γὰρ τὸν μικρόν ἄρχοντα οὐ τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς ὁρῶ, ἀλλὰ τῇ ψύχῃ

σελ. 80 τῇ ψύχῃ μόνῃ δυνάμεθα ἀκριβῶς ἰδεῖν.

[mwh]

ω φιλε Μαρκε, δοκεις γε μοι προκοπην ποιεῖσθαί τινα, δεῖ δέ σε ὅντινα δήποτ’ αἰτήσασθαι συλλαμβάνειν σοι τὰ σφάλματα διορθουμένῳ, ὧν εν ταυταις ενεστι ταις αποκρισεσι πολλα. και δη χρονου ηδη παρεληλυθοτος παμπολλου παντως σε δει την του τε χρησιν μαθειν ἥτις εστι· ειωθας γαρ καταχρησασθαι.
Markos, I think I see some signs of improvement in your Greek, but you should ask someone (maybe bedwere?) to help you correct your errors. There are many in these αποκρισεις. And it’s high time you learned how τε is used. You constantly misuse it, resulting in gibberish. Here’s three instances:
αὐξανόμενοι, πάντα τε πάντας ἀποκτείνουσι οὗτοι.
βαίνομεν ἡμεῖς ὅ τε παῖς τ' ἐγὼ ἥσυχοι πρὸς κρήνην τινά.
καλῶς γράφεις, φίλτατε, καὶ ἀκριβῶς τε γελοίως.
Can you see what you’re doing wrong?

[Tugodum]

"τὸ βασειλίδιον ἐχασμήσατо· τὴν οὐκ ἀκικνουμένην δυσμὴν ἐπόθει." (p. 47) Am wondering what might ἀκικνουμένην possibly stand for here.... TLG does not find it

[Paul Derouda]

ἀφικνουμένην?

[Tugodum]

ἀφικνουμένην?

Seems right. Thanks a lot!

[Markos]

κεφάλαιον 12 παραφραζόμενον:

τί ποιεῖς?
οἶνον πίνω.
διὰ τί?
διότι οὐ θέλω μνημονεύειν.
μνημονεύειν τίνος?
ὅτι αἰσχύνομαι.
τίνος?
ὅτι οἶνον πίνω.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 53:

1. ὑπὸ τοῦ φιλοῦντος οἶνον πίνειν τὸ τρίτον πλανητὸν ᾠκεῖτο.
2. μεθύσκεται οὗτος ἵνα ἐπιλανθάνηται ὅτι αἰσχύνεται ὅτι μεθύσκεται.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 57:

1. ἐν τῷ τετάρτῳ πλανητῷ αὐλίζεται ἄνθρωπός τις ὃς χρῆται χρημάσιν ἵνα ἔτι πλείονα χρήματα κτᾶται.
2. ἀεὶ τοὺς ἀστέρας οὓς ἀριθμεῖ, τούτους ἀγοράζει.
3. οὐκ ὁμοῖος τῷ Μάρκῳ οὗτος. σπουδαῖος γάρ ἐστιν.
4. οὐδέποτε ὁ ἐπιχειρηματίας ἐκ τῆς ὀρθῆς ὁδοῦ παράγεται.


ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 61:

1. ἄνθρωπος ᾤκει ἐν τῷ πέμπτῶ πλανητῷ οὗ ἡ ἐργασία τὸν λύχνον ἅπτειν τε καὶ σβεννύναι ἐστιν.
2. τὴν λαμπάδα σβέσας, αὔθις ἅπτει. τὸ φῶς ἅψας, πάλιν σβέννυσι.
3. οὐδέποτε δύναται καθεύδειν.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 66:

1. καταυλίζεται ἐν τῷ πλανητῷ τῷ ἕκτῳ ὁ γεωγραφός. τούτ' ἐστι ὁ τὰ περὶ τῆς γῆς βιβλία γράφων.
2. γράφει οὗτος ποῦ εἰσιν τὰ ὄρη καὶ αἱ θάλασσαι καὶ αἰ ἐρῆμοι.
3. τῷ γεωγραφῷ οἱ διερενηταὶ λέγουσιν τὰς μνήμας.
4. περὶ τῶν ῥόδων τῶν μὴ μενόντων οὐ θέλει γράψαι.

"τὸ βασειλίδιον ἐχασμήσατо· τὴν οὐκ ἀκικνουμένην δυσμὴν ἐπόθει." (p. 47) Am wondering what might ἀκικνουμένην possibly stand for here.... TLG does not find it

ἀφικνουμένην?

Seems right. Thanks a lot!

ἡ δυσμὴ ἀφίκετο, τοῦ βασιλειδίου μὴ πάροντος. ἐλυπήθη οὖν.

[Tugodum]

κεφάλαιον 12 παραφραζόμενον

τὸ δὴ ἀυτὸ κεφάλαιον νυνὶ ἀνεγνωκὼς θαυμάζω, εἰ τῷ πεπαικέναι ὁ μεταφραστὴς τοὺς πλήρους λαγύνους τοσούτους ὅσοι κενοὶ εἶναι ἔλεγεν. οὐ γὰρ τοῦτο ὁ μεταφρασθεὶς λόγος ἔχει.

[Markos]

κεφάλαιον 12 παραφραζόμενον

τὸ δὴ ἀυτὸ κεφάλαιον νυνὶ ἀνεγνωκὼς θαυμάζω, εἰ τῷ πεπαικέναι ὁ μεταφραστὴς τοὺς πλήρους λαγύνους τοσούτους ὅσοι κενοὶ εἶναι ἔλεγεν. οὐ γὰρ τοῦτο ὁ μεταφρασθεὶς λόγος ἔχει.

συνῆκα. δεῖ τὴν παράφρασιν λέγειν "οἶνον πολὺν πίνω."

ἴθι πολλὰ χαίρων.

[Tugodum]

On p. 55, "μᾶλλον ἧττον" is explained as "εγγυς, ανευ πολλης διαφορας" (which renders well the "un peu comme" for the original). But how does "μᾶλλον ἧττον" obtain this force? Is it an analogy of "more or less" in English? In LSJ, I found only "τὸ μᾶλλον καὶ ἧττον, a form of argument, a fortiori" (whatever this might mean).

[Markos]

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 67:

1. θαυμαστὸν πλανητὸν καὶ ἐξαίσιόν ἐστιν τὸ ἕβδομον.
2. ρια' ἐστιν ὁ ἀριθμὸς τῶν ἐπὶ γῆς βασιλέων. (ἐν δ' οὐρανῷ μόνος εἷς.)
3. οἱ τὰς ἐν τοῖν Πόλοιν λαμπάδας ἅπτοντες δὶς κατ' ἐνιαυτόν πονοῦσιν.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 71:

1. πρῶτον ἐφάνη τὸ ἐχίδιον τῷ βασιλειδίῳ.
2. ποῦ εἰσιν οἱ ἄνθρωποι;
3. ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ ὁ μικρὸς ἄρχων.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 72:

1. μόνῳ ἑνὶ ἄνθει ἐνέτυχε τὸ βασιλείδιον.
2. τὸ πνεῦμα αὐτοὺς περιελαύνει. ῥίζας γὰρ οὐκ ἔχουσιν.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 73:

1. εἰς ὄρος ὑψηλὸν ἀνέβη οὗτος.
2. μόνοι πετροὶ ὀχεῖς αὐτῷ ἐφανερώθησαν.
3. τὴν ἑαυτοῦ φωνὴν λέγουσαν τὸ «καταλέλειμμαι!» ἤκουσε τὸ βασιλείδιον.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 74:

1. ἐν τῷ κήπῳ ῥοδωνιαὶ πολλαί εἰσιν.
2. νομίζων ῥοδωνιὰν ἔχειν, μόνον ῥόδον τι ἔχει.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 81:

1. ἦλθε δὴ ὁ ἀλώπηξ.
2. οὐ δεδάμακε τὸν ἀλώπεκα ὁ μικρὸς ἄρχων.
3. ἐθέλησε τὸν βασιλείδιον δαμάζειν αὐτόν.
4. ἤρετο ὁ ἀλώπηξ εἰ θηρευταὶ ὑπάρχοιεν ἐν τῷ πλανητῷ τοῦ βασιλειδίου.
5. κατὰ Πέμπτην ἡμέραν ὀρχοῦνται οἱ θηρῶντες.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 83:

1. τῷ τοῦ σταθμοῦ ἄρχοντι ἤντησε τὸ βασιλείδιον.
2. τοὺς ἐπιβάτας οἰκονομεῖ ὁ σταθμός.
3. ἄφνω σιδηρόδρομον τι ἐφάνη.
4. οἱ μὴ καθεύδοντες χασμῶνται.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 84:

1. τῷ καπήλῳ περιέτυχε τὸ βασιλείδιον.
2. φάρμακα μικρὰ (τροχίσκους) πωλεῖ ὁ ἔμπορος.
3. τὰ φάρμακα φαγόντες, χρόνον πλείονα νῦν ἔχουσι.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 87:

1. φοβεῖται μὴ ἀποθάνοι.
2.ὁ τῆς δύψης κίνδυνος κεῖται δή.
3. φρέαρ ζητεῖ.
4. τοῦ ἡλίου ἀνατέλλοντος, τὸ φρέαρ ἐφάνη.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 92:

1. φρέατα ἐν τῇ ἐρημίᾳ ὀρύγματά ἐστιν ἃ ὁρύσσουσιν ἄνθρωποι.
2. τὸν μικρὸν ἄρχοντα ἐπότισεν ὁ κυβερνήτης.
3. τὰ τῶν Γενεθλίων εἶδε.
4. τῶν τοῦ κυβερνήτου διαγραμμάτων κακῶν ὄντων, ἐγέλασε τὸ βασιλείδιον.
5. τῇ πέρυσι κατέβη οὗτος.


ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 100:

1. ἤκουσα τὸν βασιλίδειον ὄφει διαλεγόμενον.
2. πρὸς τὸ ἑαυτοῦ πλανητὸν ἐπανελθεῖν ἐθέλησε.
3. ἐννοήσει τὸ βασιλίδειον ὁ κυβερνήτης οὐ τοῖς ὁφθαλμοῖς ἀλλὰ τῇ ψυχῇ.
4. βαρὺ τὸ σῶμα.

ἀποκρίσεις τοῖς ἐρωτήμασι τοῖς ἐπὶ σελ. 102:

1. τὸ σῶμα οὐ δύναται εὑρίσκειν.
2. τῇ ψυχῇ ἀκούει τῶν ἀστέρων.
3. ἡ καλλίστη γῆ ἐστιν ἡ γῆ ὅπου ἐφάνη τὸ βασιλίδειον καὶ ἠφανίσθη.

[Markos]

Isaac Newton has done a nice reading of a paraphrase of chapter 12:

https://archive.org/details/NewRecording46_201708

Any other recordings would be appreciated.

[mwh]

μᾶλλον ἧττον.

Argument κατα το μαλλον και ηττον is a “topos” identified by Aristotle in his Rhetoric and popular with later rhetoricians. A is more X (e.g. bigger) than B; or less X. The one is better than the other, according to circumstances.
Example, in quasi-syllogistic form: Guys are stronger than girls, and strength is good, therefore guys are better than girls.
A fortiori is not quite the same. If you didn’t learn Greek until you were 25, then (a fortiori) you didn’t know Greek at 20.
All that is presumably irrelevant here.

I don't think I’ve ever seen μᾶλλον ἧττον meaning “more or less,” “approximately.” It should mean “rather less” (as in “she likes me rather less than I like her,” εκεινη εμε μαλλον ηττον φιλει η εκεινην εγω). Perhaps he means μαλλον η ηττον, but that’s not ancient Greek idiom.

(I’ll no longer comment on Markos’ αποκρισεις, nor on Isaac Newton’s readings. I haven’t actually looked at the original, preferring to read real Greek. But the composition at http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... =2&t=67354 is both excellent and delightful.)

[Tugodum]

Perhaps he means μαλλον η ηττον, but that’s not ancient Greek idiom.

Thanks, this is extremely helpful! I'm surprised that I see only (admittedly deserved) accolades but not any criticisms from the Classics folks regarding this translation.

[Markos]

σελ. 42 ...ᾔσθετο δακρύειν βουλόμενος.

ἔμαθεν ὡς μέλλοι κλαίειν.

σελ. 68: ὁπόταν σοφὸς εἶναι βούλῃ, ἀεὶ ὑπάρχει ὅτι ὁλίγον ψεύδει.

τὸ ἄγαν σοφὸν οὐ σοφία ἐστίν.

σελ. 24: τὸ γὰρ ἀγνὸν βούλεσθαι τεκμήριόν ἐστιν ὅτι ὑπάρχεις.

ὁ μὲν Δεσκάρτες λέγει τὸ «νομίζω ὥστε ὑπάρχω.» ὁ δ' Ἐχύπερι λέγει τὸ «φιλῶ τινα ὥστε ὑπάρχω.»

λέγουσι τινὲς ὅτι ἡ ἀνθεμίς ἐστι ἀλληγορία τῆς τοῦ de Saint-Exupery γυναικός. λέγω δὲ τὴν ἀνθεμίδα τὴν Γαλλίαν ἀλληγορουμένην εἶναι.

σελ. 38: δεῦρο ἐλθόντων οἱ τίγρεις ὄνυχας ἔχοντες!

ἦλθον δὴ οἱ τίγρεις. (λέγω τοὺς Γερμανούς.) ἔδει οὖν τὸν Ἐχύπερι, εἰς τὴν Γαλλικὴν ἐπανελθόντα, ἀποθανεῖν τοῖς τίγρεσι πολεμοῦντας.

σελ. 65: ὁ θάνατος ἐπίκειται τῇ ἐμῇ ἀνθεμίδι;

ὁ μὲν θάνατος ἡμῖν ἐπίκειται. τὸν δὲ Χριστὸν ἐπὶ θανάτῳ Θεὸς τέθηκε.

ἄλλαι ὠφέλειαι:

σελ. 16 τὸ ἀρχέτυπον = τί ἢ τίνα διαγράφω
σελ. 24: πρός τινα ἡσύχως παίζω = καταφρονῶ τινος
σελ. 25: ἄχθομαι = λυποῦμαι
σελ. 27 αὐξάνομαι = μέγας γίγνομαι
σελ. 28 μακρύνομαι = αὐξάνομαι
σελ. 29 θάμνος = μικρὸν δένδρον
σελ. 29 τὸ μήνυμα = τί λέγω σοι ἵνα σὺ γνῶς.

[Markos]

τὸν τοῦ βιλβίου μῦθον λέγω.

https://archive.org/details/REC008_201708

[Tugodum]

I wish I turn out to be wrong but the phrase in bold (p. 89) seems to me a plain error:
"οἱ μικροὶ ἐπὶ τοῦ τῶν Γενεθλίων δένδρου λύχνοι καὶ ἡ τῆς λειτουργίας μουσικὴ τῇ μέσῃ νυκτὶ"
(Of course I noticed it only because I went through this topic recently in Dickey)