ὡς δὲ ἄρα συνελέχθησαν, πρὶν ἢ τὸν Εὐρυβιάδην προθεῖναι τὸν λόγον τῶν εἵνεκα συνήγαγε τοὺς στρατηγούς, πολλὸς ἦν ὁ Θεμιστοκλέης ἐν τοῖσι λόγοισι οἷα κάρτα δεόμενος·
I'm struggling to translate the line in bold, or rather to know if my translation is correct. So far I've got, 'Themistocles spoke at length in his speech because he was very eager'.
In the LSJ I found this regarding οἱα:
2. [select] οἷος, οἵα, οἷον freq. introduce an 'indirect exclamation', giving the reason for what precedes, ἄνακτα χόλος λάβεν, οἷον ἄκουσε because of what he heard, Il.6.166, cf. Od.17.479 ; ἐμακάριζον “τὴν μητέρα οἵων τέκνων ἐκύρησε” Hdt.1.31 ; “ἀγανάκτησιν ἔχει ὑφ᾽ οἵων κακοπαθεῖ” Th.2.41 ; “τὴν ἐμαυτοῦ τύχην [ἀπέκλαον], οἵου ἀνδρὸς . . ἐστερημένος εἴην” Pl.Phd.117c, cf. S.OT701.
and for this reason I translate it as 'because'.
And I also found that κάρτα δεόμενος means 'to be in want/need' - is 'very eager' or maybe 'he really needed to' an okay translation?
Herodotus Histories 8.59
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59
I would translate οἷα as "inasmuch as". "Because" is ok here, too.
κάρτα δεόμενος -- "in great need"? Or "begging/pleading emphatically"?
Anyone else have some thoughts about this?
κάρτα δεόμενος -- "in great need"? Or "begging/pleading emphatically"?
Anyone else have some thoughts about this?
Bill Walderman
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59
Here there’s not a finite verb wth οἷα but a participle. I copy a post from http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... 5&p=189294, on a sentence in Pausanias:
πολλὸς ἦν ὁ Θεμιστοκλέης ἐν τοῖσι λόγοισι won’t mean he spoke at length so much as he spoke with force and urgency. Cf. LSJ πολύς 2c.οἷα, technically neuter plural used adverbially, is prefixed to the participial phrases (gen.abs., as bedwere says), and is probably best translated “inasmuch as,” and the participles as finite verbs: “Inasmuch as he was wearing a full-length chiton and his hair was neatly plaited, …”. The meaning is much like ἅτε (itself neut.pl. used adverbially), and the construction is the same. LSJ οἷος V 3 is the category. The workmen mock his girly appearance.
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59
With οἷα, is there any hint of "such was the extent of" rather than just "because of the extent of"? I think that I may be more used to seeing it as οἷα δὴ in Plato.
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Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59
mwh wrote:Here there’s not a finite verb wth οἷα but a participle. I copy a post from http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... 5&p=189294, on a sentence in Pausanias:πολλὸς ἦν ὁ Θεμιστοκλέης ἐν τοῖσι λόγοισι won’t mean he spoke at length so much as he spoke with force and urgency. Cf. LSJ πολύς 2c.οἷα, technically neuter plural used adverbially, is prefixed to the participial phrases (gen.abs., as bedwere says), and is probably best translated “inasmuch as,” and the participles as finite verbs: “Inasmuch as he was wearing a full-length chiton and his hair was neatly plaited, …”. The meaning is much like ἅτε (itself neut.pl. used adverbially), and the construction is the same. LSJ οἷος V 3 is the category. The workmen mock his girly appearance.
Thank you both!Hylander wrote:I would translate οἷα as "inasmuch as". "Because" is ok here, too.
κάρτα δεόμενος -- "in great need"? Or "begging/pleading emphatically"?
Anyone else have some thoughts about this?
Hmm I can't find anything in the LSJ but perhaps someone else will knowjeidsath wrote:With οἷα, is there any hint of "such was the extent of" rather than just "because of the extent of"? I think that I may be more used to seeing it as οἷα δὴ in Plato.