Herodotus Histories 8.59

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Phoebus Apollo
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Herodotus Histories 8.59

Post by Phoebus Apollo »

ὡς δὲ ἄρα συνελέχθησαν, πρὶν ἢ τὸν Εὐρυβιάδην προθεῖναι τὸν λόγον τῶν εἵνεκα συνήγαγε τοὺς στρατηγούς, πολλὸς ἦν ὁ Θεμιστοκλέης ἐν τοῖσι λόγοισι οἷα κάρτα δεόμενος·

I'm struggling to translate the line in bold, or rather to know if my translation is correct. So far I've got, 'Themistocles spoke at length in his speech because he was very eager'.
In the LSJ I found this regarding οἱα:
2. [select] οἷος, οἵα, οἷον freq. introduce an 'indirect exclamation', giving the reason for what precedes, ἄνακτα χόλος λάβεν, οἷον ἄκουσε because of what he heard, Il.6.166, cf. Od.17.479 ; ἐμακάριζον “τὴν μητέρα οἵων τέκνων ἐκύρησε” Hdt.1.31 ; “ἀγανάκτησιν ἔχει ὑφ᾽ οἵων κακοπαθεῖ” Th.2.41 ; “τὴν ἐμαυτοῦ τύχην [ἀπέκλαον], οἵου ἀνδρὸς . . ἐστερημένος εἴην” Pl.Phd.117c, cf. S.OT701.

and for this reason I translate it as 'because'.
And I also found that κάρτα δεόμενος means 'to be in want/need' - is 'very eager' or maybe 'he really needed to' an okay translation?

Hylander
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59

Post by Hylander »

I would translate οἷα as "inasmuch as". "Because" is ok here, too.

κάρτα δεόμενος -- "in great need"? Or "begging/pleading emphatically"?

Anyone else have some thoughts about this?
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mwh
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59

Post by mwh »

Here there’s not a finite verb wth οἷα but a participle. I copy a post from http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... 5&p=189294, on a sentence in Pausanias:
οἷα, technically neuter plural used adverbially, is prefixed to the participial phrases (gen.abs., as bedwere says), and is probably best translated “inasmuch as,” and the participles as finite verbs: “Inasmuch as he was wearing a full-length chiton and his hair was neatly plaited, …”. The meaning is much like ἅτε (itself neut.pl. used adverbially), and the construction is the same. LSJ οἷος V 3 is the category. The workmen mock his girly appearance.
πολλὸς ἦν ὁ Θεμιστοκλέης ἐν τοῖσι λόγοισι won’t mean he spoke at length so much as he spoke with force and urgency. Cf. LSJ πολύς 2c.

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jeidsath
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59

Post by jeidsath »

With οἷα, is there any hint of "such was the extent of" rather than just "because of the extent of"? I think that I may be more used to seeing it as οἷα δὴ in Plato.
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Phoebus Apollo
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Re: Herodotus Histories 8.59

Post by Phoebus Apollo »

mwh wrote:Here there’s not a finite verb wth οἷα but a participle. I copy a post from http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... 5&p=189294, on a sentence in Pausanias:
οἷα, technically neuter plural used adverbially, is prefixed to the participial phrases (gen.abs., as bedwere says), and is probably best translated “inasmuch as,” and the participles as finite verbs: “Inasmuch as he was wearing a full-length chiton and his hair was neatly plaited, …”. The meaning is much like ἅτε (itself neut.pl. used adverbially), and the construction is the same. LSJ οἷος V 3 is the category. The workmen mock his girly appearance.
πολλὸς ἦν ὁ Θεμιστοκλέης ἐν τοῖσι λόγοισι won’t mean he spoke at length so much as he spoke with force and urgency. Cf. LSJ πολύς 2c.
Hylander wrote:I would translate οἷα as "inasmuch as". "Because" is ok here, too.

κάρτα δεόμενος -- "in great need"? Or "begging/pleading emphatically"?

Anyone else have some thoughts about this?
Thank you both!
jeidsath wrote:With οἷα, is there any hint of "such was the extent of" rather than just "because of the extent of"? I think that I may be more used to seeing it as οἷα δὴ in Plato.
Hmm I can't find anything in the LSJ but perhaps someone else will know

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