Lysis 217c

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jeidsath
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Lysis 217c

Post by jeidsath »

σκέψασθε δὴ ὃ λέγω. λέγω γὰρ ὅτι ἔνια μέν, οἷον ἂν ᾖ τὸ παρόν, τοιαῦτά ἐστι καὶ αὐτά, ἔνια δὲ οὔ. ὥσπερ εἰ ἐθέλοι τις χρώματί τῳ ὁτιοῦν τι ἀλεῖψαι, πάρεστίν που τῷ ἀλειφθέντι τὸ ἐπαλειφθέν.

πάνυ γε.

ἆρ᾽ οὖν καὶ ἔστιν τότε τοιοῦτον τὴν χρόαν τὸ ἀλειφθέν, οἷον τὸ ἐπόν;

οὐ μανθάνω, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς.

So look at what I'm saying. For I say that some of whatever may be present, is itself that kind, some not. Just as if one wishes to smear something with some particular paint, what is being smeared over is in contact with the thing that has been painted.

Very much so.

Therefore the thing painted is now the color of the paint, as we might say?

I don't understand, he said.

***

Well, οὐ μανθάνω me either. Is τὴν χρόαν an accusative of respect? I understood τῷ ἀλειφθέντι as the thing being painted in once sentence, and then τὸ ἀλειφθέν as the paint in the next. That can't be right, I don't think. All of these passive participles of ἀλείφειν can refer to the near or far object (the paint and the thing painted) can't they? If so, it's a wonder to me how native speakers kept all that straight. I could take τὸ ἐπαλειφθέν as referring to the thing painted and τῷ ἀλειφθέντι as the paint, I suppose, but I would think it's the paint present to the painted, not vice versa.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Lysis 217c

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

ἆρ᾽ οὖν καὶ ἔστιν τότε τοιοῦτον τὴν χρόαν τὸ ἀλειφθέν, οἷον τὸ ἐπόν;

τὸ ἐπόν is from ἔπειμι, right? So something like:

"Therefore what is painted is the same sort of thing in color as what is added (the paint)?" And yes, that would make τὴν χρόαν an accusative of respect.

Does that help?
N.E. Barry Hofstetter

Cuncta mortalia incerta...

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jeidsath
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Re: Lysis 217c

Post by jeidsath »

Yes, that makes it much simpler. I mentally saw ἔπος for some reason.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

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