I am wondering what the subject of the subordinate clause introduced by "δῆλον ὅτι" is. Is it "τὰ Κύρου", or is it "τὰ Κύρου πρὸς ἡμᾶς"?
"Ἄνδρες στρατιῶται, τὰ μὲν δὴ Κύρου δῆλον ὅτι οὕτως ἔχει πρὸς ἡμᾶς ὥσπερ τὰ ἡμέτερα πρὸς ἐκεῖνον..." (Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10)
Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?
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Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?
Last edited by Kurama on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.8-10: What is the subject?
I would say τὰ...Κύρου. πρὸς ὑμᾶς functions as a predicate.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Cuncta mortalia incerta...
Cuncta mortalia incerta...
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.8-10: What is the subject?
Thanks. The reason I was in doubt is that Mather and Hewitt have this note:Barry Hofstetter wrote:I would say τὰ...Κύρου. πρὸς ὑμᾶς functions as a predicate.
"τὰ... Κύρου... πρὸς ἡμᾶς: the relation of Cyrus to us."
But I'm guessing what's going on is that they are suggesting the student to translate the whole phrase like that.
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?
To me it seems that the subject of δῆλον is everything in the sentence except for Ἄνδρες στρατιῶται and δῆλον itself. The phrase τὰ...Κύρου is the subject of οὕτως ἔχει πρὸς ἡμᾶς.I am wondering what the subject of the subordinate clause introduced by "δῆλον ὅτι" is. Is it "τὰ Κύρου", or is it "τὰ Κύρου πρὸς ἡμᾶς"?
"Ἄνδρες στρατιῶται, τὰ μὲν δὴ Κύρου δῆλον ὅτι οὕτως ἔχει πρὸς ἡμᾶς ὥσπερ τὰ ἡμέτερα πρὸς ἐκεῖνον..." (Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10)
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?
Yes, I agree with Altair.
Does the δη goes with δηλον οτι (meaning something like “abundantly clear”)?
Does the δη goes with δηλον οτι (meaning something like “abundantly clear”)?
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
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Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?
δῆλον ὅτι is sometimes written δηλονότι. Although it could be analyzed as an impersonal expression, δῆλόν [ἐστιν] ὅτι followed by a subordinate clause, it functions more or less like an adverb, "clearly". Usually, as here, δῆλον ὅτι/δηλονότι doesn't precede the ὅτι clause, but instead is inserted as the second element or later, so the word order suggests that it should be analyzed as an adverb or a parenthetical expression, not as a main (non-subordinate) clause followed by a subordinate clause.
Since subordinate clauses introduced by ὅτι in Greek generally take a nominative subject and a finite verb, a clause with δῆλον ὅτι/δηλονότι is generally indistinguishable from a main clause modified by an adverb.
Links to LSJ:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... .lono%2Fti
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... D.H.%3Dlos
I agree with Barry: πρὸς ἡμᾶς is predicative. τὰ Κύρου is the subject. I think (1) πρὸς ἡμᾶς is too far separated from τὰ Κύρου to be part of the noun phrase, (2) it follows the verb, ἔχει, and (3) if πρὸς ἡμᾶς were part of the noun phrase with τὰ Κύρου, we would expect τὰ Κύρου . . . τὰ πρὸς ἡμᾶς.
But I think M&H's translation, "the relation of Cyrus to us" would be ok because English would need to supply a noun to translate τὰ Κύρου.
Since subordinate clauses introduced by ὅτι in Greek generally take a nominative subject and a finite verb, a clause with δῆλον ὅτι/δηλονότι is generally indistinguishable from a main clause modified by an adverb.
Links to LSJ:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... .lono%2Fti
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... D.H.%3Dlos
I agree with Barry: πρὸς ἡμᾶς is predicative. τὰ Κύρου is the subject. I think (1) πρὸς ἡμᾶς is too far separated from τὰ Κύρου to be part of the noun phrase, (2) it follows the verb, ἔχει, and (3) if πρὸς ἡμᾶς were part of the noun phrase with τὰ Κύρου, we would expect τὰ Κύρου . . . τὰ πρὸς ἡμᾶς.
But I think M&H's translation, "the relation of Cyrus to us" would be ok because English would need to supply a noun to translate τὰ Κύρου.
Bill Walderman