participle taking the gender of its predicate

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Tugodum
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participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by Tugodum »

I know that, as a rule, a participle takes the gender of its predicate (or object)--as in "οἶδε μὲν γὰρ οὐδεὶς τὸν θάνατον οὐδ’ εἰ τυγχάνει τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ πάντων μέγιστον ὂν τῶν ἀγαθῶν" (Plato, Apol. 29 a 6-8); yet I find it difficult logically to digest this rule, given that the participle's having a gender is due to its being an adjective, and the gender of an adjective is defined by the subject that it qualifies. Does anyone know of a way to logically justify the indicated participle gender rule? Thanks in advance.

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jeidsath
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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by jeidsath »

I wouldn't say that adjectives agree with a "subject," but with a substantive. The reason that we think of participles as similar to adjectives is that they always agree with a substantive themselves.

The interesting thing to me about that sentence, is why both μέγιστον and ὂν seem to be m. acc., or n. nom./acc., even though the subject of τυγχάνει looks like it should be θάνατος. Attraction to τὸν θάνατον? Or maybe I'm just misguided here.
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Tugodum
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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by Tugodum »

jeidsath wrote:the subject of τυγχάνει looks like it should be θάνατος
exactly, it sure is. so, purely logically, the participle should be ὤν, not ὄν. yet, following the indicated rule, it agrees with μέγιστον, which is neuter nominative.
jeidsath wrote:I wouldn't say that adjectives agree with a "subject," but with a substantive
that it agrees with a substantive, goes without saying. the question is which substantive: the one of which the participle is predicated (as of its subject) or the one which is predicated of the participle (as an object of the action that it signifies)?

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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by mwh »

Consider
ο θανατος εστι αγαθον, Death is a good
ο θανατος εστι μεγιστον των αγαθων, Death is the greatest of goods
ο θανατος τυγχανει ον παντων μεγιστον των αγαθων, Death is actually the greatest of all goods.

“Logic” may require ων, but Greek doesn’t. ων would read very oddly. If you must, you can say that the participle is attracted to the gender of the predicate.
Last edited by mwh on Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tugodum
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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by Tugodum »

mwh wrote:“Logic” may require ων, but Greek doesn’t.
exactly. except that i'm not sure why you put logic in quotation marks. i know of no modern language that has the same peculiarity. isn't this intriguing? BTW, my Latin is rather rusty, so would be grateful should anyone remind me how it stands there.

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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by mwh »

I added the end of my post while you were replying. "Attraction" is your answer. Greek is very fond of attraction.

Tugodum
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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by Tugodum »

Thanks, this does make sense.

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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by mwh »

Let me correct myself. I don’t think I should have said that ὤν would read oddly in the sample sentence I gave (*ο θανατος τυγχανει ον παντων μεγιστον των αγαθων). But in Plato’s sentence (οἶδε μὲν γὰρ οὐδεὶς τὸν θάνατον οὐδ’ εἰ τυγχάνει τῷ ἀνθρώπῳ πάντων μέγιστον ὂν τῶν ἀγαθῶν) the participle is slipped in after πάντων μέγιστον (both neuter, and τῶν ἀγαθῶν neuter following), and in such circumstances the neuter is almost inevitable.

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Re: participle taking the gender of its predicate

Post by Tugodum »

OIC. This brings the idea of "attraction" more clearly to light. Thanks!

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