Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

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Kachikawawa
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Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Hello!!
"Ităque, memor Nessi praecepti,
uestem tinctam Centauri sanguĭne, Hercŭli qui ferret, nomĭne
Licham famŭlum
misit
"
I couldn't find to which verbs these accusatives belong. And this nomĭne what it means?

anphph
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by anphph »

I'm going to make a slight change in word order and punctuation. You should be able to get it now; if you don't I'll explain it more explicitly.

Itaque, memor Nessi praecepti, nomine "Licham" famulum misit, Herculi qui ferret vestem tinctam Centauri sanguine.

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Let me try to translate it now:
"And so, remembering the command of Nessus, she sent the hungry Licham to Hercules who carries the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus."

I didn't find a way to translate the the ablative of nomen. And I'm not sure if Herculi is here as dative of genitive. It seems that it could have the same ending in both cases.
Last edited by Kachikawawa on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anphph
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by anphph »

Right, so we're not quite there yet. First things first, the word famulus (which also exists in English) means "house-servant" - it's actually where the word "family" comes from, familia being the whole group of famuli. (This is the perfectly classical sense of the word.) You may have been thinking of the word famelicus, from fames.

You translated "qui ferret" with "who carries". This is wrong for two reasons: the first is that it's the wrong tense - the Latin has a past tense which you understood as present. The second is that it fails to convey the reason why the Latin has ferret in the imperfect subjunctive. This is a case of the "final subjunctive", -- she sent the servant, who would take the clothes -- meaning a subjunctive with the force of a final, also known as a purpose, clause.

nomine Licham famulum - a servant that was Licha[s] "as concerns his name" - so, a servant called Lichas.
I'm not sure if Herculi is here as dative of genitive. It seems that it has both endings in each case.
Let's have some common-sense here. Yes, it has identical endings, but how on earth would a genitive here make any sense? It's dative. A servant who would take it to Hercules.

In Hyginus' phrasing the final-relative clause comes before the noun to which it refers. This is called anticipation or prolepsis (or cataphora).

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Understood!!
"She sent the servant called Licha to Hercules who would take the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus. "

anphph
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by anphph »

Kachikawawa wrote:Understood!!
"She sent the servant called Licha to Hercules who would take the cloth impregnated with the blood of the centarus. "
Yes, that's much better.
Herculi is dative but goes with ferret. Also tincta-impregnated?! The verb is tingere, which literally means to dye, to soak, to dip into a liquid.

"She sent the servant Licha to take to Hercules the cloth soaked with the Centaur's blood."

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Thank you so much for the help!!!!

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

"Quod Deianira ut uidit, alĭter esse ac Nessus
dixĕrat intellexit
, et qui reuocaret eum, cui uestem dedĕrat,
misit."

[*]How could we traslate the "ut": "AS Deinara sees it"?
[*]Why are there these two conjugated verbs in same sentence: "dixĕrat intellexit"?
[*]Does this "misit" really have a accusative here?

anphph
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by anphph »

[*]How could we traslate the "ut": "AS Deinara sees it"?
When. Remember Vergil's rightly famous: ut vidi, ut perii!, ut me meus abstulit amor!, - when I saw
[*]Why are there these two conjugated verbs in same sentence: "dixĕrat intellexit"?
Words expressing either similitude or difference can take either the dative/genitive, or else the word "atque/ac". When you are expressing a difference in a whole clause it can be either atque/ac or quam, if you're expressing similitude it has to be atque/ac. Here the sense is:
[Hoc] Deianira ut uidit,
intellexit
alĭter esse
ac Nessus dixĕrat.

When Deinaira saw this [quod is just a connecting relative],
she understood
it to be [accusative sentence due to intelligere] different
than what Nessus had said.
[*]Does this "misit" really have a accusative here
No. It's elided. It's more or less the same (also a relative/final clause) as in the previous passage you asked about.

qui reuocaret eum, cui uestem dedĕrat, misit.

misit [aliquem] qui revocaret eum, cui vestem dederat.

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Thanks!!! So:
"She understood it to be different than what Nessus had said, and she sent someone in order to call him back, whom she had given the cloth"?

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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by anphph »

Kachikawawa wrote:Thanks!!! So:
"She understood it to be different than what Nessus had said, and she sent someone in order to call him back, whom she had given the cloth"?
Perfect.

"[When Deianira saw this], She understood it to be different than what Nessus had said, and she sent someone in order to call back the one to whom she had given the cloth"?

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Hello!!
This phrase is driving me crazy:
Postquam Iuno vidit Epapho ex pellice nato tantam regni potestatem esse, curat in venatu, ut Epaphus necetur, Titanosque hortatur, Iovem ut regno pellant et Saturno restituant.
The first sentence is already really hard: After Juno saw the royal power being ?? with Epaphus born of a concubine??

Is "tantam regni potestatem" object of "vidit" or "esse"?

anphph
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by anphph »

Postquam Iuno vidit:

[Epapho ex pellice nato] tantam regni potestatem esse

Esse+dat means "to have, to own" - est mihi liber :: I have a book.

Epapho ex pellice nato is a dative.

Is this easier?

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Thanks!! Is it correct:
"After Juno saw Epaphus having more royal power, she arranges, when hunting, to kill Epaphus, she encourages the Titans to banish Jupiter from the kingdom and to rebuild with Saturno."

anphph
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by anphph »

"tantus,a,um" does not mean "more". It means "so much".

"Titanosque hortatur" :: AND she encourages

pellere can mean banish, sure, but banish has legal undertones. Here it just means to expel.

Saturno restituant :: Saturno is dative. Restituere means to give back.

Kachikawawa
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Re: Question about a Hyginus Fabulae

Post by Kachikawawa »

Understood!! Thank you very much!!!

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