Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Here you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Latin, and more.
Post Reply
pmda
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by pmda »

This sentence in Orberg's LLPSI has been a bit tricky. Livy is describing Taquin the Proud's style of governing.

Hic enim regum primus traditum a prioribus morem de omnibus rebus senatum consulendi solvit, domesticis consiliis rem publicam administravit, bellum, pacem, foedera, societates per se ipse, cum quibus voluit, iniussu populi ac senatus, fecit rupitque.

It's very hard to work out what "Hic enim regum primus..' means - This first of kings? - though he was the last of the kings!? Also the word order seems to resemble what you'd find in poetry rather than in prose. The only way I can attempt to translate it (just to confirm its meaning - I'd rather not translate) is to assume that this is somewhat idiomatic Latin. Words in square brackets are not in the text but are assumed (by me) to be the meaning....

[In these circumstances he was] the first of the kings [who] broke the traditional custom, from the earliest [times], of consulting the senate concerning all things, he governed for private interest - war, peace, treaties, allies according to his own wish, [and] with whom he wished, without the sanction of the people or the senate, he made and broke.
Last edited by pmda on Thu May 10, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ii56
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 1:37 am

Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by ii56 »

I think that domesticis consiliis is an ablative of manner and should be translated as "with private counsel" or something to that effect. Other than that, your translation seems fine.

pmda
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by pmda »

Many thanks.

Hylander
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2504
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by Hylander »

traditum a prioribus morem -- "the custom handed down from/by those who preceded"
Bill Walderman

mwh
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 4790
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:34 am

Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by mwh »

How very topical!

There’s nothing poetical about the Latin.
primus hoc feci I first did this i.e. I was the first to do this. So here He was the first to break with tradition.
As distinct from
primum hoc feci I first did this (then I did something else).

pmda
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by pmda »

Many thanks!

pmda
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by pmda »

ii56 wrote:I think that domesticis consiliis is an ablative of manner and should be translated as "with private counsel" or something to that effect. Other than that, your translation seems fine.
Could it be an ablative of means...?

pmda
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1341
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 am

Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Post by pmda »

Another 4 clarifications / questions re re:

Hic enim regum primus traditum a prioribus morem de omnibus rebus senatum consulendi solvit, domesticis consiliis rem publicam administravit, bellum, pacem, foedera, societates per se ipse, cum quibus voluit, iniussu populi ac senatus, fecit rupitque.

1) traditum a prioribus morem - custom handed down by? / from? the ancestors?

2) de omnibus - literally concerning all..

3) morem...consulendi...senatum - literally custom (acc. case)...of consulting (gerund genitive)...the senate (acc. case).

4) societates - friendships...

Post Reply