paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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daivid
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paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by daivid »

Caesar starts off with 4 legions but the first thing he does is raise 2 legions. Then in the second year he raises 2 further legions.

Caesar says nothing about where the money came to pay for this.
None of the modern accounts of the Gallic wars even pose the question let alone answer it,

The first 2 legions, I guess, must have been from the resources of his 3 provinces (well 2 and a bit as Illyricum was a small enclave at that time). Possibly past governors raised fewer troops than the provinces could support and pocketed the excess.
Raising the next 2 legions could well have been paid for out of tribute extracted from the allies who Caesar had taken the field to protect from the Helvetii and the Germans.

If he was already raising tribute that would explain the Belgae's preparations and the discontent among Caesar's "allies". This possibility makes me wonder about the order of events Caesar described.
Caesar says he heard of the Belgae's preparations and then raised the new legions. If he was raising them simply because he had more ready cash and the recruitment was already underway when he heard of the Belgae's preparations it would explain his promptness in returning to Gaul that led to the Remi changing sides.

But have any modern historians had a more serious look at the question than my guesses?
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seneca2008
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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by seneca2008 »

I think Julius Caesar would have funded the cost of levying and maintaining his legions from a variety of sources including his own money and what he could have borrowed from his friends.

By way of illustration Suetonius says about the legions raised after the meeting of J.C. with Crassus and Pompey at Lucca in 56 " qua fiducia ad legiones, quas a re publica acceperat, alias priuato sumptu addidit, unam etiam ex Transalpinis conscriptam, uocabulo quoque Gallico—Alauda enim appellabatur—" (Suet. Jul. 24) (Presumptuous now with his success he added, at his own private charge, more legions to those which he had received from the republic; among the former of which was one levied in Transalpine Gaul, and called by a Gallic name, Alauda) trans Thomson on Perseus

"Caesar says he heard of the Belgae's preparations and then raised the new legions. "

J.C. was writing victor's history so he would want to present the Belgae as the aggressors. At the beginning of Book II of the gallic war one of the causes for the Belgae's preparations for war is that the ability of the chiefs to appoint kings would be undermined if they were incorporated into the roman empire. It seems like an opposition here between roman republic values and the taboo idea of kingship. I think rhetoric is more important here than chronology.

All this conquest must have had a financial element to pay off his creditors and enlarge his fortune. I am sure there is an extensive literature on this. There is an brief bibliography here http://dcc.dickinson.edu/caesar/caesar-bibliography
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by ailuros »

took a quick look at colin ewan's introduction to book one of gw. it's sounds like c was already deeply indebted to crassus by this time (although those obligations arose from public works projects that c undertook when he was aedile rather than military campaigns). the need for crassus to protect his investment in c's future success was one of the reasons for the formation of the triumvirate. c had become too big to fail. the introduction is otherwise silent on the financing of these campaigns, but it seems unlikely it wasn't some carefully negotiated "capital stack" that benefitted each, as i think seneca2008 suggests.

these kind of questions often interest me, too, daivid. if i get time today i'll check the oxford dictionary for any articles on roman financing.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by daivid »

I have read Suetonius but didn't remember that bit. I am unclear how that could work given that he started heavily in debt. Or could the rise in his credit rating due to his conquests count as being able to his own private charge raise more legions?

To big to fail? Yes that would allow him to rely on credit longer than otherwise given that the conquests would give reason to suppose that eventually he would be able to pay off the debts.
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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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checked the oxford dictionary* entry on "finance, roman." public finance is an apparently murky and much disputed area, especially for the republican era (the entry focused on the augustan). money would have been flowing into the public coffers from all over the empire, as seneca2008 notes, from tribute, taxes, levies, plunder, etc. daivid has laid out other likely sources (although c's assets were really crassus' at this point, i suppose). but the senate still controlled the purse at this time.^ so, what deals, bribes, extortions, marriages, called-in-markers, and other arrangements (both seemly and not; daivid correctly notes the eternal "skim") that were made to open the public and other purses at the right times (and correctly managing cash flow is critical to any operating business) seems to be anyone's guess.

i don't mean to be cynical either. patriotism and a true belief in the right of rome to expand its holdings doubtless underlay many senatorial decisions. after all, rome was - like walter white - in the empire business. or maybe i should be cynical; i'm not really sure. i'll admit it's been a long time since i've thought much about this period. the ocd is about the only historical resource i currently have for roman history. that's not ideal.

* the oxford classical dictionary, 3rd ed. revised. the entry was by graham paul burton, [then] lexturer in ancient historu at univ. of manchester, uk. five sources are cited, but i'm guessing they have little to add to this question or it would be in the entry.

^ the introduction by colin ewan mentioned above also noted that crassus was himself stymied by the senate from "...readjust[ing] some large financial deals in the East...," another contributing factor to formation of the triumvirate. i wonder if this readjusting would today be more like a "restructuring," and if so, perhaps crassus had become too big to fail for his own creditors. this is all my wild speculation, not ewan's. whatever the case, crassus must have been fantastically wealthy by any period's standards. that he could not impose his will on the roman senate could mean that the senate was a formidable institution to face for even its most powerful citizens. i would like to learn more about crassus' predicament in the east, but maybe that he had one is all we really know for certain. and, by the way, the ewan introduction comes from the bristol classical press edition.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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I suggest that if you are really interested in this aspect of J. C. you find a copy of "Shatzman, I. 1972. “Caesar: An economic biography and its political significance,” Scripta Hierosolymitana 23, 28–51."
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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thanks. that is not one of the writings cited for the ocd entry.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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My two cents: Caesar was able to raise more legions the second year with what he had managed to pillage in Gaul in the first year. Gold, slaves, whatever. I'm not looking up anywhere, just a guess.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by daivid »

seneca2008 wrote:I suggest that if you are really interested in this aspect of J. C. you find a copy of "Shatzman, I. 1972. “Caesar: An economic biography and its political significance,” Scripta Hierosolymitana 23, 28–51."
That does look interesting but my classics library doesn't hold Scripta Hierosolymitana but I'll ask them if they have some online means of accessing it.
Paul Derouda wrote:My two cents: Caesar was able to raise more legions the second year with what he had managed to pillage in Gaul in the first year. Gold, slaves, whatever. I'm not looking up anywhere, just a guess.
Which would be a temporary fix allowing Caesar delay the moment when the Gauls discovered they were tribute paying subjects and not allies.

While my inclination is to explain every every revolt by assuming them to be a response to some demand such as tribute or as has been suggested for the Venitii demands for military levies (in their case ships). Barbara Levick (in Julius Caesar as artful reporter ) also mentions that some historians have suggested fears that Caesar would fix trade to favor Itallian merchants.
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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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Are you a member of the institute of classical studies library? They generally have most things. http://www.icls.sas.ac.uk/icls_library
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by daivid »

seneca2008 wrote:Are you a member of the institute of classical studies library? They generally have most things. http://www.icls.sas.ac.uk/icls_library
I am. I checked the catalogue and to be completely accurate they do have a couple of years for Scripta Hierosolymitana but not the one with the article. But the computers in the computer room do have extra online access so I will try next time.
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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by ailuros »

i envy you both. no such facility exists in philadelphia that i know of. sigh.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by daivid »

ailuros wrote:i envy you both. no such facility exists in philadelphia that i know of. sigh.
The University of Pennsylvania does have a classics department. There may be a way that members of the public can join the library. Even if they do have such an option universities often strive to avoid anyone knowing about it. I assume that the University gets at least some of its money from either state of Federal government so they certainly ought to have such and option.
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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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yes, upenn has an outstanding classics department and i would kill to be able to use the department's library. my guess, however, is that they do not allow non-matriculating persons to use the facilities. can't say that i've attempted to learn for certain, but it would really surprise me if they do. i would have to get a student id, etc., and that probably ain't happening.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

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Looks like you can join for $400 a year which is much more expensive than the ICLS. Its $200 if you are an alumnus.
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by ailuros »

wow! thanks, seneca2008. i did not know that. it is a bit price-y for me, but i will check that out further. it would give me access to things like the shatzman article you earlier mentioned. a great weekend to all!

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Re: paying for Caesar's first 4 legions

Post by ailuros »

also, it's more than a bit embarrassing that people in London have to do my philadelphia research for me!

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