Search found 829 matches

by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 22, 2019 9:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Most literal translations with facing texts?
Replies: 6
Views: 77

Re: Most literal translations with facing texts?

I would also suggest working through as long a section as possible without looking at the English, and then going to the translation to check your work. And avoid interlinears -- not only do they tend to cripple your language acquisition, but they can cause severe health problems, and the use of 6 o...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 22, 2019 5:03 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Hello everyone!
Replies: 3
Views: 58

Re: Hello everyone!

Greetings, Michal, my interests were almost identical to yours when I was starting my classics program farther back in the 20the century than I care to admit...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 22, 2019 4:11 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: SENECA'S DE IRA (c.41 AD - mid-First century) 4 translation questions
Replies: 1
Views: 56

Re: SENECA'S DE IRA (c.41 AD - mid-First century) 4 translation questions

Iuppiter m. Also Iūpiter, Iouis. [< *d(i)i̯eu̯-; Sanskrit dyaúh, Greek Ζεύς, cf. Latin dies, deus; nominative probably originally a vocative phrase, *Di̯eu + pater, cf. Greek Ζεῦ πάτερ] ORTHOGRAPHY: spelling Iupiter rare, but printed in e.g. VAR. L. FORMS: nominative sg. Iouis ENN. Ann. 63, ACC. tra...
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue May 21, 2019 10:35 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: poetic verses amaze me
Replies: 2
Views: 139

Re: poetic verses amaze me

I wouldn't worry too much about easy and hard at this point. For a beginner used to essentially one style, using textbooks with limited vocabulary (both the amount of vocabulary and the semantic range of the words) and textbook perfect constructions, changes in style and usage can be troubling. It t...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu May 16, 2019 4:17 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Mathew 6:13 accent
Replies: 6
Views: 219

Re: Mathew 6:13 accent

For a nice general introduction to accents:

http://ucbclassics.dreamhosters.com/anc ... tionU.html
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu May 16, 2019 1:54 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Did the Ancient Greeks Know They Were Greek
Replies: 9
Views: 311

Re: Did the Ancient Greeks Know They Were Greek

And of course the Greek speaking Byzantines referred to themselves as Ῥωμαῖοι.
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 15, 2019 7:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Αρχω / καταρχω
Replies: 1
Views: 90

Re: Αρχω / καταρχω

Well, that is a very good place to start... :) They appear to me to be close synonyms, but I don't think it's that sort of emphasis, rather to a native speaker the word would sound better or fit better in some contexts than others. For example, LSJ notes "2. in religious sense, begin the sacrificial...
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue May 14, 2019 9:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Pl Symp 174d
Replies: 2
Views: 97

Re: Pl Symp 174d

τοιαύτ αττα σφας Έφη διαλεχθεντας ιεναι. Does it mean : having discussed some such things we went or discussing some such things we went. I think having discussed unlike what Steadman Says, for discussing would be διαλεγομενους Here is a bit more of the context: ὅρα οὖν ἄγων με τί ἀπολογήσῃ, ὡς ἐγὼ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon May 13, 2019 2:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: the happy sheep
Replies: 2
Views: 149

Re: the happy sheep

Ovis grammaticus felix ovis!
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri May 10, 2019 1:57 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Scholarly opinions on Xenophon?
Replies: 6
Views: 347

Re: Scholarly opinions on Xenophon?

And bustards -- don't forget the bustards. It may be because most of Xenophon is in a narrative format, and so tends to be a bit easier to the beginning reader than other authors, who may not only write with more complicated syntax, but whose content is more difficult (abstract is often more difficu...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu May 09, 2019 1:48 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek texts with macrons?
Replies: 21
Views: 903

Re: Classical Greek texts with macrons?

How so? Obviously you won't have learnt correct quantities but why should you have learnt wrong ones? Why? I would think it's obvious. But before speaking of reasons, if you'd like to see the effect for yourself, go ask someone who has studied Greek (or Latin) this way to read a line of prose aloud...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 08, 2019 11:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek texts with macrons?
Replies: 21
Views: 903

Re: Classical Greek texts with macrons?

Having teachers using correct pronunciation goes a long way toward solving this problem. Do you ditch accentuation so you can effect vowel length properly? Or can you / do you aim to pronounce Greek with both accents and vowel lengths conserved? Personally I am glad my first teachers emphasized acc...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 08, 2019 11:08 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Ludus Latrunculorum
Replies: 0
Views: 99

Ludus Latrunculorum

A find at Vindolanda: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-uncover-ancient-roman-game-board-hadrians-wall-180972133/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190508-daily-responsive&spMailingID=39641808&spUserID=ODcyNjc0Njc4NzQ4S0&spJobID=1520715066&spReportId=...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 08, 2019 10:01 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: What subjunctive is this? (from Livy)
Replies: 7
Views: 365

Re: What subjunctive is this? (from Livy)

Constantinus Philo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:22 am
Where does one look up Latin etymology please
The OLD in this case. I also have:

Wharton, E. R. (1890). Etyma Latina: An Etymological Lexicon of Classical Latin. London: Rivingtons.

A bit dated, but still useful.
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue May 07, 2019 7:19 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 747

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

I probably should have translated μεσημβρινός, and μεσημβριάς more literally as "mid-day", rather than noon. Latin meridies is calqued on μεσημβρινός, but, except for astronomers and astrologers, the ancients (and especially poets) were little concerned with astronomical precision in telling the ti...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon May 06, 2019 4:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Papyrus Letter
Replies: 4
Views: 328

Re: Papyrus Letter

This made for an enjoyable read this morning, thanks. I thought so too, which is why I shared it. εὔχομέ -- 1st person sing? ἀσπάσαστε -- inf? εὔχετ[ε] -- 3rd person present referring to the sister? εὕρητε -- 2nd person sing or pl? ἀσπάζεμε -- 1st person sing? ἀσπάζετε -- 3rd person referring to He...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon May 06, 2019 12:15 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Papyrus Letter
Replies: 4
Views: 328

Papyrus Letter

Nice post of a letter at the Sententia Antiquae blog: https://sententiaeantiquae.com/2019/05/06/a-husband-writes-home-with-a-packing-list/?fbclid=IwAR0IrXP8FdHBPbJQX_medUaMUvKtAMWXrWpcyu6EADkE0zs92jFKq-sUM_8 Fans of the apostle Paul will note this phrase in particular, γινώσκειν σε οὖν θέλω... And i...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon May 06, 2019 11:11 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: What subjunctive is this? (from Livy)
Replies: 7
Views: 365

Re: What subjunctive is this? (from Livy)

Thank you! I was thinking along pretty much the same lines as Hylander. But Constantius's reply sent me back to the dictionary, and there is indeed another ne , which I'd completely missed: it's an interjection that means something like "truly." Then libenter experirer is technically an optative co...
by Barry Hofstetter
Sat May 04, 2019 10:59 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek texts with macrons?
Replies: 21
Views: 903

Re: Classical Greek texts with macrons?

It’s hard to learn the vowel quantities along with words that you are learning from context, unless they are marked. And if you spend a lot of time reading prose before you start poetry, you will likely have internalized a lot of bad quantities. Having teachers using correct pronunciation goes a lo...
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri May 03, 2019 1:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Επισταμαι
Replies: 12
Views: 485

Re: Επισταμαι

Huh? The perfect would have a semantic function, but this verb doesn't have a perfect, and I think that's for the reason I've explained. ἐπίσταμαι is not a denominative verb. ἐπιστήμη and ἐπιστήμων are deverbative nouns. -μι verbs aren't derived from nouns by any productive processes. ἐπίσταμαι see...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu May 02, 2019 2:07 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il 362
Replies: 5
Views: 344

Re: Il 362

Constantin’s method of scanning is just as good as Barry’s, if not better (less question-begging). But both are badly inadequate, inasmuch as they fail to recognize the caesura, here coinciding with the syntactical structure. There’s only one break in the line, and it comes after κλαιεις. Scanning ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 01, 2019 7:58 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il 362
Replies: 5
Views: 344

Re: Il 362

I just want to make sure that my scanning is correct τΕκνον τΙ κλαιΕΙς τι δε σΕ φρένας Ικετο πΕνθος This is not what I recognize as scansion. If you are marking long syllables with a capital, it should be: τΕκΝΟν | τΙ κλΑΙ | ΕΙς τι δε | σΕ φρενας | Ικετο | πΕΝθος I've used the vertical bar to separ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 01, 2019 1:29 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Empta intercessione
Replies: 5
Views: 259

Re: Empta intercessione

Hlawson, that sounds good to me. It's not difficult from the syntax, which is actually quite straightforward, but because of the technical use of the vocabulary.
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 01, 2019 10:27 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Anyone familiar with Green’s *Brief Introduction to NT Greek*?
Replies: 11
Views: 398

Re: Anyone familiar with Green’s *Brief Introduction to NT Greek*?

With regard to memorization of vocabulary, I'm not going to argue against word lists and flash cards. But the best way to internalize the vocabulary is to use the language as much as possible, and that means as much reading as possible, along with more active forms of use such as composition and spe...
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:49 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Empta intercessione
Replies: 5
Views: 259

Re: Empta intercessione

mwh wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:18 pm
He's claiming the intercession was “bought” i.e. procured by bribery. Vote buying is not a new practice.
That's how I originally took it, but the translation (and lack of note,) made me second guess. Thanks!
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Empta intercessione
Replies: 5
Views: 259

Empta intercessione

From Cicero's Pro Milone 14: divisa sententia est postulante nescio quo—nihil enim necesse est omnium me flagitia proferre—sic reliqua auctoritas senatus empta intercessione sublata est. I get the general idea, but what is the exact sense of "empta?" The translation I have says "corrupt" but I'm not...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:52 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Sententiae Antiquae
Replies: 1
Views: 116

Sententiae Antiquae

Sententiae Antiquae is a marvelous website/blog/facebook page where numerous quotations from classical authors, both Latin and Greek, are posted, in the original language accompanied by translation. You can subscribe and have the posts sent directly to your inbox.

https://sententiaeantiquae.com/
by Barry Hofstetter
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:40 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Introduction to Latin poetry
Replies: 22
Views: 1230

Re: Introduction to Latin poetry

jeidsath wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:09 pm
I have already read tens of thousands of hexameters. Just not in Latin.
After years of reading hexameter in Latin, I had to retrain myself to read it correctly in Greek. It's quite similar, of course, but just different enough to be jarring, like twins who are almost identical.
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:48 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The role of ὡς in καρτερέω + participle (Heb. 11:27)
Replies: 15
Views: 688

Re: The role of ὡς in καρτερέω + participle (Heb. 11:27)

τὸν γὰρ ἀόρατον ὡς ὁρῶν ἐκαρτέρησεν. Only the NTE (2011) translation takes this as "he persisted in seeing". Other translations take it as some sort of general endurance / persistence with what is endured / persisted in derived from the context. Is there something about having the ὡς here that is t...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:07 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?
Replies: 15
Views: 713

Re: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?

You typed that by hand? And only a few typos. I tip my hat to you sir (metaphorically speaking). My favorite character is the πανταπώλης. "Here! Here's a really big needle! Does that help?"
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:47 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?
Replies: 15
Views: 713

Re: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?

For all we know, the Talmud gets it from the Christians. :roll: Are you suggesting that as a real possibility, or is it intended just as a provocative quip? Why, yes... :shock: When you have the earliest attestation of something, it's always possible that it's the source. It's also impossible to pr...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:27 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Introduction to Latin poetry
Replies: 22
Views: 1230

Re: Introduction to Latin poetry

One of the best threads (for me anyway) in a while. Joel, just an affirmation of MWH's last point about learning Latin well before embarking on the finer details of metrical schemata (though I think you are better prepared to grasp what's being said due to your experience in Greek). Usually this is ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:26 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?
Replies: 15
Views: 713

Re: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?

Well, more simply, what I'm outlining as a possibility is: 1. The Gospel writers actually used the phrase "camel through the eye of the needle", which was based on an existing proverbial expression. 2. Some manuscripts had καμιλον for καμηλον. Since ι was pronounced η when they were copied, it is a...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:43 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?
Replies: 15
Views: 713

Re: The “eye of a needle” saying: a camel or a rope?

Actually, the phrase is unattested elsewhere (until after the gospels become well known, at any rate), and no, there was no such thing as a "camel gate" during that time period. It's simply a rather clever and apparently original turn of phrase to illustrate an impossibility.
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Geoffrey Steadman
Replies: 3
Views: 246

Re: Geoffrey Steadman

Steadman normally includes a table of abbreviations. If you are using a PDF version of one his texts, you might have missed it.
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:41 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ave, Imperator...
Replies: 8
Views: 539

Re: Ave, Imperator...

ablativus loci or temporis? Think of it as just fundamental ablative. Suetonius wouldn't have thought about the distinction here, and you shouldn't either. Ablative of location and ablative of time are just categories invented by modern grammarians to classify broad ranges of uses of the ablative f...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:14 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ave, Imperator...
Replies: 8
Views: 539

Re: Ave, Imperator...

Didn't Suetonious also include the tidbit about Augustus banishing the gladiator who responded to the jeering mob in the colosseum by giving them the, " infamis digitus?" Pyladen urbe atque Italia summouerit, quod spectatorem, a quo exibilabatur, demonstrasset digito conspicuumque fecisset. (Suet. ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:47 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: More Bach
Replies: 2
Views: 192

Re: More Bach

Very nice, thanks for sharing that. And Napoli! Lovely area, as long as the volcanos stay quiescent... :)
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:38 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Popmæ dictionary, testers needed
Replies: 5
Views: 308

Re: Popmæ dictionary, testers needed

bedwere wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Thank you for the explanation. I haven't tried your other dictionaries yet. For composition I use SMITH & HALL. I'd say it is useful to have synonyms.
The link above didn't work for me. I found it here:

https://www.latinitium.com/smithhall