Getting μέλλω

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Lukas
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Getting μέλλω

Post by Lukas »

I am reading Unit 18 of Introduction to Attic Greek / Donald Matronarde and am confused by paragraph 10 on page 151:
Is the meaning of "ἔμελλεν ἀποθανεῖσθαι," "I was about to die."?

Here is the paragraph:

Image
Λουκᾶς

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seneca2008
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Re: Getting μέλλω

Post by seneca2008 »

Lukas wrote:Is the meaning of "ἔμελλεν ἀποθανεῖσθαι," "I was about to die."?
What person do you think ἔμελλεν is? How could it be" I"? Can you conjugate the imperfect of μέλλω?

You obviously didn't read what I advised in my last post to you. There is no point in trying to guess. You have to be sure you can analyse the word.

Can you be more precise about exactly you don't understand?

I think you are trying to go too fast through these chapters.

Mastronarde is a very dense book. Perhaps you need to supplement it with say reading Greek or Athenazde.

I am always happy to help but you need to help yourself by cultivating a more careful approach to the material. Greek is hard don't make it even harder for yourself. :D
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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Lukas
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Re: Getting μέλλω

Post by Lukas »

I should have written, "He was about to die." That is my guess. Yes, I am reading what you say, but sometimes I still ask questions. Do not get after me for that. I ask a lot of questions.
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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Getting μέλλω

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

Lukas wrote: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:59 pm I should have written, "He was about to die." That is my guess. Yes, I am reading what you say, but sometimes I still ask questions. Do not get after me for that. I ask a lot of questions.
Don't feel bad about asking questions, but I think his point is that with a little more effort you might have been able to answer the question yourself. I'm not being snarky -- figuring out the answers yourself is one of the best ways to learn, if not the best.

And I personally think you deserve honorable mention for the thread title... :D
N.E. Barry Hofstetter

Cuncta mortalia incerta...

donhamiltontx
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Re: Getting μέλλω

Post by donhamiltontx »

Seneca2008 is right that looking at another grammar can help.

Sometimes Google can also help. Lysias uses this specific expression in Lysias 12.17:

[17] καὶ ἐγὼ τοιαῦτα πεπυσμένος τῆς ἐπιούσης νυκτὸς διέπλευσα Μέγαράδε. πολεμάρχῳ δὲ παρήγγειλαν οἱ τριάκοντα τοὐπ᾽ ἐκείνων εἰθισμένον παράγγελμα, πίνειν κώνειον, πρὶν τὴν αἰτίαν εἰπεῖν δι᾽ ἥντινα ἔμελλεν ἀποθανεῖσθαι: οὕτω πολλοῦ ἐδέησε κριθῆναι καὶ ἀπολογήσασθαι.

The Greek is from http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... :speech=12

It is interesting that none of the few translations that I looked at gives a literal rendering of the phrase, save one in Italian:

δι᾽ ἥντινα ἔμελλεν ἀποθανεῖσθαι = per il quale stava per morire.= for which he was going to die,
and so confirming your answer.

The Italian is from https://www.skuolasprint.it/versione-li ... marco.html

In this case, Google led me pretty far astray, and so was not particularly helpful. But at any rate you have a confirmation for your answer. I will add that for me at any rate the meaning of the verb is not always as straightforward as it is in this case. :)

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jeidsath
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Re: Getting μέλλω

Post by jeidsath »

It's a normal mistake. ἔμελλεν is ἔμελλε with the moveable-ν added because of the following vowel, and therefore easy to confuse with ἔμελλον until you are used to it.

μέλλω ἀποθνῄσκειν - I am about to die
μέλλει ἀποθνῄσκειν - He is about to die
ἔμελλον ἀποθνῄσκειν - I was about to die
ἔμελλεν ἀποθνῄσκειν - He was about to die

That could be ἀποθανεῖσθαι and mean the same thing. It can also mean "likely to" in all those cases.

In the Lysias passage though "δι᾽ ἥντινα ἔμελλεν ἀποθανεῖσθαι" means "for which he was to be put to death." (The verb gets used as the passive of ἀποκτείνω in legal language.) Best ignore that for now.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

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seneca2008
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Re: Getting μέλλω

Post by seneca2008 »

Lukas wrote:I should have written, "He was about to die." That is my guess. Yes, I am reading what you say, but sometimes I still ask questions. Do not get after me for that. I ask a lot of questions.
I have no problem with you asking questions. It’s your methodology that needs some work. Reading Greek isn’t about guess work. You need to be rigorous in analysing the words. Looking at a phrase or a sentence and guessing its meaning won’t teach you very much. (See my post to your previous thread. ) Being able to identify the case of every noun and adjective and the tense mood and person of every verb will teach you a great deal. When you have more experience and you are reading longer texts a certain amount of educated guessing does come into play. At this stage you should be sure and rereading sections you have covered is vital.

I apologise if I came across as discouraging. You are putting a lot of effort into your Greek and I simply want to help you focus your efforts. :D
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

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