JWW exercises, paragraphs 616, 617, 618

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Koala
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JWW exercises, paragraphs 616, 617, 618

Post by Koala » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:07 pm

answer suggestions for ex's in lesson LXVI

616
1. He led twenty horsemen, and coming forward asked where he might see the generals
2. On the fourth day I/they fled into the stronghold
3. And a reward (of) more than three minas was owed to the soldiers
4. For if we (at) once withdrew/distanced-ourselves two or three days’ journey, the enemy will not follow us
5. Indeed in such a manner did five generals, having been beheaded, end their lives
6. And he drives on three days journey, twenty two parasangs to the river Meander, the width of which (this) was two plethra
7. And Clearchus the Lacedaemonian exile came with (having) a thousand hoplites, (and) eight hundred Thracian peltasts and two hundred Cretan bowmen.
8. They remained in this place ten days, and an inspection and count (number) was made, and there were eight thousand six hundred (men)
9. There the soldiers first ate the crown (cabbage) of the palm tree
10. Therefore I shall choose you, and never shall anybody say that I preferred the friendship of the Persians

617
[size=167]α. τὸ στράτευμα ἀπῄτησε τὸν Κῦρον τεττάρων μηνῶν μισθόν. β. ἦσαν αὐτῷ ἐν τῷ στράτευματι ἱππεῖς πλείους ἢ τετταράκοντα γ. παρῆν δὲ καὶ στρατηγὸς ἄλλος ἐπὶ τῶν νεῶν καὶ ὁπλῖται ἑπτακόσιοι. ε. τῷ βασιλεῖ ἐλέγετο εἶναι ἱππεῖς ἑξακισχίλιοι δ. ἐντεῦθεν ἐξήλασε σταθμοὺς τρεῖς παρασάγγας πεντεκαίδεκα ἐπὶ τὸν Εὐφράτην ποταμόν, ου[ h]ν τὸ εὖρος τέτταρα στάδια[/size]

618
Then indeed a count of those under arms was found to be: in the Greek army (there were) ten thousand four hundred shield (bearers), peltasts – two thousand five hundred, of the barbarians (native troops) with Cyrus – a hundred thousand, and about a hundred scythed chariots. Of the enemy there was said to be one million, two hundred thousand men and two hundred scythed chariots. There were besides, six thousand horse, which Artagerses led/commanded – these moreover were drawn up in defence of the King himself. There were four rulers of the King’s army, both generals and leaders, each with three hundred thousand men.

[size=150]περὶ Κύρου ἐπέγνως ἂν τόδε[/size]
bon capitaine, bons soldats

Skylax
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Post by Skylax » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:37 pm

616

4. Once more, I am not sure that I understand the English correctly. First, it is « if once » ; ἀπέχω intransitive here means « be away » ; ἤν with a subjunctive here implies a future situation, thus basically « if once we will be away a journey of two or three days ». How do you say that in English ?

8. add « under arms » :)

617
b. στρατεύματι accent on the antepenult :)
g . « with 7000 hoplits » : translate better as « having… » (see 616, 7)
e. You are in the middle between two constructions : if ἱππεῖς is in the nominative, then the verb must be in the plural ἐλέγοντο ; if in turn you wish to retain ἐλέγετο, then it will be followed by an infinitive clause εἶναι ἱππέας ἑξακισχιλίους


618 – ok (note : in Greek, the construction of the sentence with ἀριθμὸς ἐγένετο… is still unclear to me)

This month's quotation :
πολλὰ πιὼν καὶ πολλὰ φαγὼν καὶ πολλὰ κάκ’ εἰπὼν ἀνθρώπους κεῖμαι τιμοκρέων (ρόδιος

Koala
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Post by Koala » Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:42 pm

Thank you again Skylax!

but, I'm not sure if I follow the reasoning on 617.4

what I was trying to say was:

it is said (that) to the king there was 6000 cavalrymen
i.e. - the king was said to have 6000 c...

was this not correct?

or perhaps its just my addled brain :?

With many thanks

Skylax
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Post by Skylax » Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:17 pm

Koala wrote: it is said (that) to the king there was 6000 cavalrymen
i.e. - the king was said to have 6000 c...
Yes, in Greek there are two ways to say that :
- the more frequent way : ιππεῖς will be in the nominative as the subject of ἐλέγοντο that will thus be in the plural (You did it but you left the verb in the singular),

- another possible way : ἐλέγετο is impersonal and remains in the singular, as you wrote, but then you have to construct a substantive clause that will be object of ἐλέγετο. Then you have to put "cavalrymen" in the accusative ἱππέας, this time as a subject of the sole εἶναι

Did I miss something ?
XAIPE

Koala
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Post by Koala » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:27 am

Ahh .. the light dawns ever so dimly.. :idea:

I baulked at putting 'hippeis' in the accusative since it was in opposition to 'einai', BUT I now see that the infin + accus contruction requires it

Merci beaucoup

Skylax
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Post by Skylax » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:50 pm

You are welcome (or "Mais de rien, voyons !")

I seems to me that the grammars by Germanic authors don't give a clear idea of this construction as they tend to consider separately the accusative and the infinitive. If we could call it "infinitive clause" and consider it as a real subordinate clause, it could maybe help.

Are they reluctant to speak of "subject in the accusative" ?

Koala
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Post by Koala » Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:20 am

Ah oui - I'm not sure about nos amis les Allemands, but nous, nous avons une horreur de mettre the subject in the accusative

Merci bien

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