SEG 8.269

[jeidsath]

I came across the following along with this single line of Lattimore's:

All that a mortal man can do is blame the gods.
μέμψασθαι δὲ θεοῖς ἀρκεῖ μόνον ἄνδρα γε θνητόν.

It is SEG 8.269

1 ἐξ εὐδαιμοσύνης πῦρ ἄγριον ἤλυθεν ὑμέων,     Χαρμάδα, ἔσφηλεν δ’ ἐλπίδα τις νέμεσις. ὤλετο μὲν κοῦρος [συν]ο̣μώνυμος εἴκοσι μούνας     δυσμὰς Ἀρκτούρο[υ χειμε]ρίας ἐσιδών, 5 ὤλετο δ’ ἑπταέτις θυγατρὸς θυγάτηρ Κλεόδοξα    Ἀρχαγάθας, γονέων δ’ ἔκλασεν εὐτεκνίην· οἰκτρὸν δὲ Αἰτωλὸς κούρην κώκυσε Μάχαιος,     ἀλλὰ πλέον θνητοῖς οὐδὲν ὀδυρομένοις. ἦ μὴν ἀμφοτέρους γε παλαίπλουτοι βασιλῆες 10 Αἰγύπτου χρυσέαις ἠγλάϊσαν χάρισιν· ὡς δὲ πάτραν δμηθεῖσαν Ἀνώπολιν ἐγ δορὸς ἐχθρῶν     ὤρθωσας, Κρήτην μαρτυρέουσαν ἔχεις. μέμψασθαι δὲ θεοῖς ἀρκεῖ μόνον ἄνδρα γε θνητόν,     ὦ παῖ Τασκομένους, γήραος ὡς χαλεποῦ 15 ἤντησας, ψυχῆι δὲ τὰ μυρία πάντα πονήσας     ἵκεο τὴν κοινὴν ἀτραπὸν εἰς Ἀΐδεω.

My understanding of this (so that we can have a discussion here, not meant as a translation):

A wild fire came out of your prosperity, Charmadas, and some nemesis frustrated your hope.
A boy with your name died, having seen only twenty winter settings of Arcturus.
A seven-year-old daughter of a daughter died, Archagatha's Cleodoxa, snapping off her parents' fine child-rearing.
And Aetolian Machaius piteously laments for the girl -- but there's nothing more for mortals in their mourning.
True it is that the ancient-wealthy kings of Egypt honored both with golden gifts,
And in such way, having saved conquered native Anopolis from its enemies to become a wrapped-up offering, you have Crete doing witness.
Mortal man can only blame the gods, child of Tascomenus.
Having met old age, harsh in this way, and suffered countless everything in your soul, you have gone the common road to Hades' realm.

Questions:

ἐξ εὐδαιμοσύνης expresses something like "in proportion to"? (LSJ ἐκ III.7 "in accordance with")?
The girl in line 7 is unnamed, and therefore the same as the girl in lines 5-6?
Does ἀμφοτέρους refer to Ἀνώπολις and Κρήτη like I have it? Is this Egyptian gift-giving referred to elsewhere (Herodotus?)
Κρήτην μαρτυρέουσαν ἔχεις refers to this inscription and whatever was dedicated along with it?
ψυχῆι δὲ τὰ μυρία πάντα πονήσας -- the worst of all possible sufferings, and not some mystical expression for dying and mixing with the universe, I think?

It appears to be a disease of some kind that hit Charmadas' household, given the ages of those involved (7, 20, and an old man), not a literal fire? Machaius would be Charmadas' son-in-law?

[jeidsath]

I avoided "happiness in children" for ευτεκνια. εκλασεν ευτεκνιαν might possibly be used for losing a single child out of several, or of losing a child but there being the possibility of having more, and I didn't think it said that they had lost their "happiness in children", but in this particular child. I would think that it certainly doesn't mean that they've lost their "fruitfulness".

My gloss is deceiving too, but see the adjective entry for ευτεκνος for some range in glosses. Giving birth to good, nice-looking kids and having and raising them makes us feel warm and fuzzy. It's ευτεκνια!

I thought that δορυ was impossible because of the preceding εγ=εν and so I assumed a singular of ενδορα, like δορος. But my amateur phonetics have deceived me. This is from Gaza. I see now that εγ is actually meant for εκ (entry for εγδ- in the LSJ). It has to be "out of the spear of enemies".

[Aetos]

Thanks for finding this epigram, Joel. I can see why Lattimore liked the line. I'm no judge, especially of poetry, but it touches the heart. I'm impressed and moved by its balanced description of private tragedy and public success. As for εὐτεκνία, personally I'd go with "the blessing of children". With the loss of his grandchildren, perhaps Charmadas was facing the end of his line.

Questions:

ἐξ εὐδαιμοσύνης expresses something like "in proportion to"? (LSJ ἐκ III.7 "in accordance with")?
The girl in line 7 is unnamed, and therefore the same as the girl in lines 5-6?
Does ἀμφοτέρους refer to Ἀνώπολις and Κρήτη like I have it? Is this Egyptian gift-giving referred to elsewhere (Herodotus?)
Κρήτην μαρτυρέουσαν ἔχεις refers to this inscription and whatever was dedicated along with it?
ψυχῆι δὲ τὰ μυρία πάντα πονήσας -- the worst of all possible sufferings, and not some mystical expression for dying and mixing with the universe, I think?

After spending some time in Smyth reading up on the use of ἐξ, I think it's being used to show the transition from blissful posterity to baneful nemesis; that is, from one extreme to another.
As to the girl in line 7, I'm with you-I think she's the same girl and that Machaios is her father/Charadas's son-in-law.
I'm really not sure about ἀμφοτέρους- Ἀνώπολιν and Κρήτην are both feminine, so I'd expect ἀμφοτέρας. Perhaps it refers to the two children?
Κρήτην μαρτυρέουσαν ἔχεις - perhaps "you have Crete as your witness" (Present tense because although Charmadas is dead, Crete will always be witness to his accomplishment.)
ψυχῆι δὲ τὰ μυρία πάντα πονήσας - having suffered in your soul countless (woes?)

Those are my conjectures, anyway! Perhaps mwh or Chad or Phalakros can fill in the blanks. This is really a perfect question for Hylander, though.

[jeidsath]

Well, ἐξ εὐδαιμοσύνης modifies πῦρ ἄγριον ἤλυθεν. Charmadas is being addressed. Literally, the fire came out from their prosperity. But I think that the sense is that he could not have lost it if he hadn't had it first. "Oh Fortuna!"

You are right that ἀμφοτέρους does not refer to Anopolis and Crete. I realized that it means "each other", referring to Upper and Lower Egypt. The idea, I guess, is that Charmadas has the same relationship to Crete as the ancient kings of the two Egypts had with each other.

This makes lines 9-12 simple encomium for Charmadas, and they are really entirely distinct and separate from 1-8. (Trying to see a connection had been tripping me up.) As you say, Κρήτην μαρτυρέουσαν ἔχεις does not refer to any gift from Crete at all. So "have Crete bearing witness" is fine. 13-16 is a normal concluding moral.

[Hylander]

ὡς δὲ πάτραν δμηθεῖσαν Ἀνώπολιν ἐγ δορὸς ἐχθρῶν/ὤρθωσας, Κρήτην μαρτυρέουσαν ἔχεις.

You have Crete bearing witness that [ὡς introduces indirect statement] you restored your native Anopolis [a city in Crete] which had been conquered by [εκ = instrument; see LSJ] the spear of its enemies.

πάτραν = native land, fatherland

ὤρθωσας is indicative, not participle, as augment shows.

οἰκτρὸν δὲ Αἰτωλὸς κούρην κώκυσε Μάχαιος
ἀλλὰ πλέον θνητοῖς οὐδὲν ὀδυρομένοις.
ἦ μὴν ἀμφοτέρους γε παλαίπλουτοι βασιλῆες
Αἰγύπτου χρυσέαις ἠγλάϊσαν χάρισιν·

ἀμφοτέρους refers to Machaeus and his daughter. This looks like a mythological or perhaps historical exemplum, though I can't place it. Machaeus and his daughter are parallel to Charmadas and his granddaughter and son: good fortune turned to sorrow. Structure is 6+4+6 with the exemplum (if that's what it is) in the middle, like Pindar's typical myth.

κώκυσε is Homeric aorist without augment, not present.

Τασκομένους -- nominative would be Τασκομένης, same pattern as Sophocles, Socrates.

παλαίπλουτοι βασιλῆες Αἰγύπτου -- Ptolemies?

[jeidsath]

Thanks Hylander,

Yes, εγ for εκ, as I corrected in the later comment.

And yes, πατραν means fatherland. I had "native Anopolis" in my translation.

Thanks for catching ὤρθωσας.

κώκυσε -- English malexpression. Thanks for correcting.

But I don't see how ἀμφοτέρους could refer (you mean metaphorically, I think [strike that, see edit]) to Machaeus and his daughter (Charmadas' granddaughter). For one thing, this list is about Charmadas' family, and it wouldn't seem right to drop the son/grandson and concentrate on the one girl. In the sentence itself, it's the subject of the act of the παλαίπλουτοι βασιλῆες Αἰγύπτου. So as I put in the comment, the mythological reference, I think, must be to the (mythical?) Two Lands of Egypt. The Pharaohs were the double-kings and wore the double-crown, etc. The major difficulty is that this would be the only(?) Greek reference to this major Egyptian legend. The Two Lands is not a story in Herodotus (though Menes/Min is mentioned, and he talks about the natural division of Egypt into Upper and Lower), but a historian like Manetho would likely have discussed it in his history, and its hard to say what stories about Egypt were current in Hellenic Gaza. The ως then connects it forward to the land of Crete and the person of Charmadas (was he a ruler of some kind?), in friendly diplomatic relations.

Tascomenes - thanks. I cought the Greek form, but as usual don't English names well.

EDIT: Following your logic though, with one small change, ἀμφοτέρους could refer to the dead boy and the dead girl, and the kings of Egypt to the existing kings of Egypt. And then the ως δε would simply mean that they were good to Charmadas, gifting him, etc., (and the children only by extension) and he was similarly good to Crete.

[Aetos]

Hylander,
Thanks for responding to this topic. Thanks for all your responses - they have had a profound impact on how I view poetry and have enriched immeasurably my experience of Greek and Latin literature.