τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

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τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

How would somebody who was not trying make this conform with the general ideas of Christianity read this phrase? Specifically the nuance of λαγχάνω?

Does it have the idea of unexpectedness, ie. accidently or by chance that the Modern Greek form λαχαίνω carries? ie. "to those who (in a way equally honouable to the way we did) received by chance a faith" (taking ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν as an adverbial phrase) or "to those who have chanced upon a faith equal in value to us" (taking ἰσότιμον as an adjective)?

Alternatively, does it carry the idea of exclusivity, ie. that somebody got to obtain the faith, in so far as others did not?

Alternatively again, is the sense specialness, ie. that the faith is a calling to a special office?
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Re: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

To raise another point after looking at all the English translations of this verse.

Am I missing something obvious here? All the English translations listed here seem to be reading ἰσότιμον as an feminine (common) adjective with πίστιν, and none of them are reading it as an adverb (neuter).

According to my understanding of accidence, the form ἰσότιμον could be either adjective or adverb.

In my reading, the simplest way to take it is an adverb of manner, with the authour politely adulating (if the excessiveness of "adulation" can be taken in a good sense of politeness in a culture where excessively talking others up is received well) about his addressees, by saying that God has given the same honour as was given to them as was given to the group that Peter associates with. Within human communication models it seems that the opening of a letter (or conversation) is a time to employ one or other (positive or negative) polieness strategy to establish an amicable relationship. Talking about the person and saying that their relationship to the faith is the same as the authour's seems like a plausible direct and positive politeness strategy to counter-balance in some way perhaps, the strong statements that follow (buttering the bread before you toast it is a lot more palatable).

Conversely, reading the Greek in the way that all English translations (the ones that seem to relate closely to the Greek at least) take it - as an adjective - suggests that there are 2 allowable Christian faiths, both of equal value. While I'm generally not fond of harmonisations in Biblical theology, I notice that the authour of Ephesians (the first part of chapter 4) is quite insistent on there being only one faith. If Peter was in fact saying that another faith is equal to the one he and his group holds to, what actually was that faith?
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Re: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

Post by Barry Hofstetter »

ἰσότιμος, ον (s. ἴσος, τιμή; Strabo 15, 3, 20; Dio Chrys. 24 [41], 2; Plut. et al.; OGI 234, 25 [c. 200 B.C.]; 544, 33 [adv.]; PRyl 253; Mitt-Wilck. I/2, 13, 10; Philo; Jos., Ant. 12, 119; Ath. 22, 2) gener. ‘equal in honor/value’, also simply equal, like, of the same kind/value (Aelian, NA 10, 1; Herodian 2, 3, 6; Herm. Wr. 12, 12; Jos., Ant. 12, 3, 1 ‘equally privileged’) ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν πίστιν a faith of the same kind as ours = faith w. the same privilege as ours (i.e. the recipients are not less advantaged than the apostles) 2 Pt 1:1. Cp. SJCh 92, 1–3.—M-M. TW. Spicq.



Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 481). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

As for λαγχάνω, what makes best sense in context?

λαγχάνω 2 aor. ἔλαχον, subj. λάχω, ptc. λαχών; pf. 3 sg. εἴληχεν (Ath., R. 13 p. 63, 27; LMelazzo, Glotta 71, ’93, 30–33), ptc. λελογχώς 3 Macc 6:1 (Hom.+) for its constr. s. B-D-F §171, 2; Rob. 509. Pass. of κληρόω.
① to obtain someth. as a portion, receive, obtain (by lot, or by divine will; Hom.+; IPriene 205, 2; PTebt II, 382, 5; 383, 14) τὶ someth. ἔλαχεν τὸν κλῆρον τῆς διακονίας ταύτης Ac 1:17. πίστιν 2 Pt 1:1.
② to be selected through casting of lots, be appointed/ chosen by lot (Hom. et al.; Pla., Pol. 290e ὁ λαχὼν βασιλεύς; SIG 486, 9; 762, 12 λαχὼν ἱερεύς. Oft. used sim. in ins; Jos., Bell. 3, 390. In the broader sense ‘befall’: ApcMos 15 τὸ λαχὸν αὐτοῦ μέρος ἀπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ.) ἔλαχεν τοῦ θυμιᾶσαι he was chosen by lot to burn incense Lk 1:9 (on the constr. s. B-D-F §400, 3; Rob. 1060; 1 Km 14:47 v.l. Σαοὺλ ἔλαχεν τοῦ βασιλεύειν).
③ to allot a portion or make an assignment by casting lots, cast lots (Isocr. 7, 23; Diod S 4, 63, 3b) περί τινος for someth. (Ps.-Demosth. 21 Hyp. 2 §3.—B-D-F §229, 2; s. Rob. 509) J 19:24. λάχετέ μοι ὧδε, τίς νήσει τὸν χρυσόν cast lots, now, for the one who will weave the gold (for the temple curtain) GJs 10:2, w. some mss. adding καὶ ἔλαχεν τὴν Μαρίαν ἡ ἀληθινὴ πορφύρα and to Mary fell the lot of (weaving) real purple (i.e. high-quality fabric colored with the dye of shellfish rather than cheap imitations made w. vegetable or other dyes).—DELG. M-M. TW. Spicq. Sv.


Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 581). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter

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Re: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

Here are the references from among BDAG's list that I could find. All of them seem to be taking about social status.
Strabo 15.3.20 wrote:[20]ἐν οἴνῳ τὰ μέγιστα βουλεύονται, καὶ βεβαιότερα τῶν ἐν νήψει τίθενται. τῶν κατὰ τὰς ὁδοὺς συναντώντων τοὺς μὲν γνωρίμους καὶ ἰσοτίμους φιλοῦσι προσιόντες, τοῖς δὲ ταπεινοτέροις παραβάλλουσι τὴν γνάθον καὶ δέχονται ταύτῃ τὸ φίλημα: οἱ δ᾽ ἔτι ταπεινότεροι προσκυνοῦσι μόνον. θάπτουσι δὲ κηρῷ περιπλάσαντες τὰ σώματα, τοὺς δὲ Μάγους οὐ θάπτουσιν, ἀλλ᾽ οἰωνοβρώτους ἐῶσι: τούτοις δὲ καὶ μητράσι συνέρχεσθαι πάτριον νενόμισται. τοιαῦτα μὲν τὰ ἔθη.
... On meeting persons of their acquaintance, and of equal rank with themselves, on the road, they approach and kiss them, but to persons of an inferior station they offer the cheek, and in that manner receive the kiss. But to persons of still lower condition they only bend the body.
Used of manners and customs between those of various social ranks.
Lucian, Navigium, 40 wrote:σὺ δὲ
ὁ οὕτως ὑψηλὸς καταπεσὼν ἀνάσπαστος ἐκ τοῦ βασιλείου
θρόνου τὴν αὐτὴν ὁδὸν ἄπει τοῖς πολλοῖς, ἰσότιμος ἐλαυνόμενος
ἐν τῇ ἀγέλῃ τῶν νεκρῶν, χῶμα ὑψηλὸν ὑπὲρ γῆς
καὶ στήλην μακρὰν ἢ πυραμίδα εὔγραμμον τὰς γωνίας
ἀπολιπών, ἐκπρόθεσμα καὶ ἀνεπαίσθητα φιλοτιμήματα:
Fallen from your high estate, dragged from your kingly throne, you go the same road as the rest of us; there is no 'benefit of royalty' among the timid flock of shades. You leave behind you upon earth some massive tomb, some stately column, some pyramid of noble outline;
Used to say that the dead are equal rank, both (former) king and commoners.
Dio Chrysostom, Orationes, 24.2 (41 in the translation) wrote:οὐ γὰρ μόνον αἱ λοιπαὶ πόλεις, ἀλλὰ καὶ τῶν ἰσοτίμων ὑμῖν αἱ πλεῖσται σχεδόν, ὅπου γέγονα, καὶ πολιτείας καὶ βουλῆς καὶ τῶν πρώτων τιμῶν οὐδὲν δεομένῳ μετέδωκαν, οὐκ ἀνωφελῆ σφισι νομίζοντες οὐδὲ ἀνάξιον τιμᾶσθαι.
Members of the Council and you other most fair-minded gentlemen here present, I believe I know for a fact that you are kindly and amiably disposed toward me. For I am sure I myself esteem highly your favourable regard and have never said or done anything against you, and besides, immediately on my reaching home1 you honoured me officially with a resolution which you sent me, expressing your joy over my return and inviting me to pay you a visit. 2 And perhaps there was nothing remarkable in what you did; for wherever I have been, not only cities in general, but even, I may say, most of those [cities] which are of (= inhabited by men of)equal rank with yourselves, have presented me with citizenship, with membership in the Council, and with highest honours without my asking it, believing me to be not unserviceable to themselves or unworthy of being honoured.
Used of comparing the men of one council to those of another council.
p.rly. 2 253 r2 wrote:Ἀπ̣ο̣[λλοδώρω]ι τῶν ἰσ̣[οτίμ]ων τοῖς π[ρ]ώτοις φίλοις καὶ στρατηγῶι
Ἀπολ[λ]\[ω]ν̣ίωι/(*) τῶν ἰσ[ο]τίμων τοῖς [πρ]ώτοις φίλοις καὶ στρατηγῶ[ι]
κα[ὶ ἐξηγ]ητ̣ῆ̣ι̣ τ̣ο̣ῦ̣ ν̣[ομοῦ](*)[ π]αρὰ Ἡρα-
κλ̣ο̣[ῦς] κα̣[ -ca.?- ]
Used in the address of a letter, referring to the social rank of various persons.
[119] Ἔτυχον δὲ καὶ τῆς παρὰ τῶν βασιλέων τῆς Ἀσίας τιμῆς, ἐπειδὴ συνεστράτευσαν αὐτοῖς: καὶ γὰρ Σέλευκος ὁ Νικάτωρ ἐν αἷς ἔκτισεν πόλεσιν ἐν τῇ Ἀσίᾳ καὶ τῇ κάτω Συρίᾳ καὶ ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ μητροπόλει Ἀντιοχείᾳ πολιτείας αὐτοὺς ἠξίωσεν καὶ τοῖς ἐνοικισθεῖσιν ἰσοτίμους ἀπέφηνεν Μακεδόσιν καὶ Ἕλλησιν, ὡς τὴν πολιτείαν ταύτην ἔτι καὶ νῦν διαμένειν:
[119] THE Jews also obtained honors from the kings of Asia when they became their auxiliaries; for Seleucus Nicator made them citizens in those cities which he built in Asia, and in the lower Syria, and in the metropolis itself, Antioch; and gave them privileges equal [declared that they should be of equal social standing (my rendering)] to those of the Macedonians and Greeks, who were the inhabitants, insomuch that these privileges continue to this very day:
Of people being granted equal status.
Aelian, De Natura Animalium, 10.1 wrote:ἐνίκησε δὲ οὐδέτερος, ἀλλὰ ἀπέστρεψαν ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων οἱ θηραταὶ βάλλοντες, ἐπεὶ καὶ ἀχρεῖοι τὸ λοιπὸν ἦσαν τῶν ὅπλων ἀφῃρημένοι. ἐρωτικὴ μὲν δὴ μάχη ἐραστῶν ἐλεφάντων ἰσότιμος μέχρι τοῦ τέλους ἐνταῦθα ἀνεπαύσατο.
So, a lovers' contest between elephant lovers, equally balanced up to the end, was there brought to a close.
Of the equal matching of elephants struggling over mating rites / leadership of the herd, when neither one was better than the other.

The reference to 12.3.1 is the same as the reference to 12.119, in Josephus, so far as I can tell.
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Re: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

Post by jeidsath »

Look at the LSJ's reference to Od. 20.281-282, where the idea of λαγχανω is not "obtaining by lot" but "obtaining one's [in this case equal] portion in a division." No implication of "unexpectedness" or "chance" is intended, as you can see by the context.

υ279 οἱ δ’ ἐπεὶ ὤπτησαν κρέ’ ὑπέρτερα καὶ ἐρύσαντο,
υ280 μοίρας δασσάμενοι δαίνυντ’ ἐρικυδέα δαῖτα·
υ281 πὰρ δ’ ἄρ’ Ὀδυσσῆϊ μοῖραν θέσαν οἳ πονέοντο
υ282 ἴσην, ὡς αὐτοί περ ἐλάγχανον· ὣς γὰρ ἀνώγει
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

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Re: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

The -τιμ- in φιλότιμος also seems to have a large (reciprocal) social relationship dimension. Desiring the honour or respect of others. Doing things that will attract (or are expected in return for) the respect of others.
Last edited by ἑκηβόλος on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Re: τοῖς ἰσότιμον ἡμῖν λαχοῦσιν πίστιν (2Pt.1:1)

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

jeidsath wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:57 pm Look at the LSJ's reference to Od. 20.281-282,
My Homer is 20 years rusty, but perhaps I read that relationship between division, receiving and equality in this way.

The division is described as μοίρας δασσάμενοι. The receiving is described as λαγχάνω is in the subordinate clause ὡς αὐτοί περ ἐλάγχανον:. That receiving is used as a reference for the deliberate act (παρατίθημι for Ulysses) in μοῖραν θέσαν οἳ πονέοντο ἴσην. He was given the equal of what they received as their share of the division.

I've only been to spit roast a half a dozen times, but even in that limited experience, portions are not really closely equivalent. The "same" in this case probably means "not in a different way", rather than "not a different size".
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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