What are these subjunctives?

Here you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Latin, and more.
Post Reply
Nesrad
Textkit Fan
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:10 pm

What are these subjunctives?

Post by Nesrad »

"sed ego ex te quaero, quoniam idem tu certe fecisses, nonne intellegas eo maiorem vim esse
naturae, quod ipsi vos, qui omnia ad vestrum commodum et, ut ipsi dicitis, ad voluptatem referatis, tamen
ea faciatis, e quibus appareat non voluptatem vos, sed officium sequi, plusque rectam naturam quam rationem pravam valere." (Cic. Fin. 2.58)

My best guess:
intellegas = subj. of indirect question
referatis, faciatis, appareat = modal attraction

mwh
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 4791
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:34 am

Re: What are these subjunctives?

Post by mwh »

Yes I think that’s right, if I understand what you mean by modal attraction. intelligas ind.qu. dep. on quaero (the nonne the same as if it were direct), and the following clauses (apart from the parenthetical ut ipsi dicitis) themselves part of the question and hence subjunctive. I take it that fecisses in the introductory clause is also to be understood as part of the question, though that’s not apparent from the syntax itself.

Hylander
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2504
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: What are these subjunctives?

Post by Hylander »

Is fecisses part of the indirect question? I read it as a contrafactual: "I ask you, since you would have done the same thing, whether . . .
Bill Walderman

Nesrad
Textkit Fan
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:10 pm

Re: What are these subjunctives?

Post by Nesrad »

Fecisses didn't pose a problem for me, I see it as a contrary-to-fact conditional sentence with omission of the protasis: i.e. You would have done the same thing if called upon by a dying friend to transmit an inheritance to his wife, but you were never put into such a situation (contrary-to-fact). Isn't syntax fun?

mwh
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 4791
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:34 am

Re: What are these subjunctives?

Post by mwh »

Certainly, as I indicated, there’s nothing in the Latin to show that fecisses is part of the indirect question. Either way it’s “contrafactual." But isn’t he saying not “I ask you, since you’d have done the same, (whether) you don’t understand that …” but “I ask you (whether) since you’d have done the same you don’t understand …”? The syntax is ambiguous. It doesn’t make a whole lot of difference, but I think the point is sharper the way I read it.

Nesrad
Textkit Fan
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:10 pm

Re: What are these subjunctives?

Post by Nesrad »

Thanks mwh, I always benefit from your answers.

Post Reply