looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

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ohwnova
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looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

Post by ohwnova »

Salvete~

:D :D :D
the question: the grammar of this sentence from Res Gestae

 Quae licet adfectabat, erant tamen haec et alia quaedam in citeriore vita patientiae non mediocris indicia, ut existimari dabatur, uni illi concessae.

Ammianus Marcellinus,Res Gestae,XVI.10.10

and the previous text is :
(nam et corpus perhumile curvabat portas ingrediens celsas,) et velut collo munito rectam aciem luminum tendens nec dextra vultum nec laeva flectebat tamquam figmentum hominis: non cum rota concuteret nutans, nec spuens aut os aut nasum tergens vel fricans, manumve agitans visus est umquam.

Multa gratias for every discussion~

RandyGibbons
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Re: looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

Post by RandyGibbons »

Quae licet adfectabat, erant tamen haec et alia quaedam in citeriore vita patientiae non mediocris indicia, ut existimari dabatur, uni illi concessae.

Hi ohwnova. I have no idea what the context here is (I'd love to know, out of curiosity, why you're reading Ammianus), but I'll take a shot at it just to get the conversation going. I don't know who the (historical, not grammatical) subject is of the preceding sentence and what he was undergoing (torture, perhaps, suggested by rota?), but it seems he was able to maintain his gaze fixed straight ahead almost like a statue (figmentum), and though he was {staggering under torture?}, he wasn't seen ever to drool or rub or scratch his mouth or nose or shake his hand.

The sentence you're asking about would then go something like this: Granted (licet) he strove to do these things (these physical acts of stoicism), nevertheless these things and certain other things in his relatively brief life were signs of a not just average [mental, contrasted with physical?] endurance (or will) that was, as it was said people thought, granted to him alone.

I'm not sure if this is right, and I"m not sure what specific grammatical question(s) you have, but as I said, maybe this will start things off.

Randy Gibbons

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Constantinus Philo
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Re: looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

Post by Constantinus Philo »

I think your understanding is correct, overall this sentence does not appear problematic.
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Constantinus Philo
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Re: looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

Post by Constantinus Philo »

However, I cannot find in my Latin dictionary the meaning of do that fits the context.
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ohwnova
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Re: looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

Post by ohwnova »

RandyGibbons wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:05 pm Quae licet adfectabat, erant tamen haec et alia quaedam in citeriore vita patientiae non mediocris indicia, ut existimari dabatur, uni illi concessae.

Hi ohwnova. I have no idea what the context here is (I'd love to know, out of curiosity, why you're reading Ammianus), but I'll take a shot at it just to get the conversation going. I don't know who the (historical, not grammatical) subject is of the preceding sentence and what he was undergoing (torture, perhaps, suggested by rota?), but it seems he was able to maintain his gaze fixed straight ahead almost like a statue (figmentum), and though he was {staggering under torture?}, he wasn't seen ever to drool or rub or scratch his mouth or nose or shake his hand.

The sentence you're asking about would then go something like this: Granted (licet) he strove to do these things (these physical acts of stoicism), nevertheless these things and certain other things in his relatively brief life were signs of a not just average [mental, contrasted with physical?] endurance (or will) that was, as it was said people thought, granted to him alone.

I'm not sure if this is right, and I"m not sure what specific grammatical question(s) you have, but as I said, maybe this will start things off.

Randy Gibbons

Hi Randy. Thanks so much for your reply. And sorry for seeing it so late.

I suffered Ammianus just because a book written in Japanese (I am reading the Chinese translation.) quoted him, the writing of Ammianus do not have much attractiveness to me. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Quae licet adfectabat, erant tamen haec et alia quaedam in citeriore vita patientiae non mediocris indicia, ut existimari dabatur, uni illi concessae.


The text seems to describe the behavior of Constantius II on a triumph back to Rome. He tired hard to show crowed his calmness, endurance and sort of that. But after twice translation——Latin(maybe English)to Japanese,then Chinese——occurred ambiguity. One of the translators omitted the “ut” (I guess), so the Chinese version delivered the meaning that “though he strove to pretend himself, the public also considered his patience in private life as the evidence of extraordinary persistence”. Like he fooled people.

This is the translation of Loeb:

And although this was affection on his part,yet these and various other features of his more intimate life were tokens of no slight endurance, granted to him alone, as was given to be
understood.


Actually,this translation still confused me,did or not Constantius really have the virtue of endurance from the perspective of Ammianus(he usually preferred Julian the Apostate). So, just “people thought that”, or “he did have”, satire or confirm. That is why I want to figure out grammar things here and I didn’t make it clear, my fault.

My teacher told me perhaps I can rewrite it as :

quamquam ea (esse vera) simulabat, tamen erant haec et alia quaedam peculiaria in interiore vita patientiae magnae quae tantum illi est data, ut existimant homines

If it is right, things would be clear, Ammianus admit Constantius really have extreme patience (there is still lots of ironic descriptions following that :lol: :lol: ).

Glad to hear your opinions.

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seneca2008
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Re: looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

Post by seneca2008 »

And although this was affection on his part,yet these and various other features of his more intimate life were tokens of no slight endurance, granted to him alone, as was given to be
understood.
Actually,this translation still confused me,did or not Constantius really have the virtue of endurance from the perspective of Ammianus(he usually preferred Julian the Apostate). So, just “people thought that”, or “he did have”, satire or confirm. That is why I want to figure out grammar things here and I didn’t make it clear, my fault.
The previous section describes Constantius' progress to and through Rome celebrating a triumph to which he was not entitled. The affectation was his public display of humility " bending under lofty gates, although short". What was given to be understood, presumably by C.'s supporters with his tacit approval, was that this and other (private) features demonstrated his unique capacity of endurance.

It seems to me that Ammianus is portraying C. as distinctly not "one of us" . In any event Ammianus is very disapproving of this Triumph over "Roman Blood". (See Mary Beard the Roman Triumph p 323).
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.

ohwnova
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Re: looking for help about a sentence in Ammianus

Post by ohwnova »

seneca2008 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:28 am
And although this was affection on his part,yet these and various other features of his more intimate life were tokens of no slight endurance, granted to him alone, as was given to be
understood.
Actually,this translation still confused me,did or not Constantius really have the virtue of endurance from the perspective of Ammianus(he usually preferred Julian the Apostate). So, just “people thought that”, or “he did have”, satire or confirm. That is why I want to figure out grammar things here and I didn’t make it clear, my fault.
The previous section describes Constantius' progress to and through Rome celebrating a triumph to which he was not entitled. The affectation was his public display of humility " bending under lofty gates, although short". What was given to be understood, presumably by C.'s supporters with his tacit approval, was that this and other (private) features demonstrated his unique capacity of endurance.

It seems to me that Ammianus is portraying C. as distinctly not "one of us" . In any event Ammianus is very disapproving of this Triumph over "Roman Blood". (See Mary Beard the Roman Triumph p 323).
Intellego,multa gratias!

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