Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

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Carolus Raeticus
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Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Carolus Raeticus »

Salvete,

I need your help with my latest transcription-project for Project Gutenberg: the second volume of Felix Fabri's Evagatorium in Terrae Sanctae, Arabiae et Egypti Peregrinationem. I was able to deal with most issues, but a few are left which might be dealt with based on a manuscript version I found on the Internet (not the original ones by Mr. Fabri, but a copy with some alterations but still close to the original text). The questions:
"XXXI. Nostra militia similior est et uniformior. Nam
milites alii, etiam in eodem bello percussi, jactant se, et unus
alteri se praefert, et ab aliis quidam aliis praeferuntur, meliores
esse milites, et militiae gloriam melius meruisse, et nonnumquam
in curiis regum graves inimicitias contra se ob id
habent: his frascis omnibus et sordidis laudibus caret nostra
hierosolymitana militia, quia omnes aequaliter eam merentur,
et nobilis miles factus non minus est miles, quam rex ibi
percussus."
Is this really "frascis"? There is a manuscript-version (not exactly the same text), but I cannot make out the writing. Any idea?

"Ab hoc monasterio fuerunt missae sorores
etiam ad alias mundi partes ad aedificandum similia monasteria.
Unde in comitatu dominorum de Kyburg prope Thuregum
est hodie unum de illis monasteriis et dicitur ad
sanctum Lazarum Imgfren."
Is this really "Imgfren"? See this manuscript.
"Johannes, dictus Hentgi, procurator et cocus expertus."
Is this really "Hentgi"?. Compare the manuscript.
"Insuper obtulit,
se suis expensis reaedificare muros Jerusalem, jam per Corradinum,
regem Damasci, destructos, et omnes captivos Christianos
reddere, et nihil velle retinere eorum, quae ad regnum
Jerosolymitanum pertinent, nisi templum Domini in Jerusalem.
Hanc conditionem libenter et contanter acceptassent Christiani,
Rex Jerusalem Johannes et Franci et Teutonici, sed non
placuit Pelagio, Cardinali Legato et Italicis, et orientalibus
Christianis, nec acceperunt nuntios Soldani."
Shouldn't this be "constanter" instead of "contanter"? The manuscript does not seem to be of much use here, because it seems to use another word.
"Mihi autem non
solum rex sed regum optimus, lumen et speculum videtur
aliorum; non enim consecrationis munus sprevisse credendus
est, sed pompam saeculi, perituram humiliter declinasse coronam,
ut immarcessibilem[ alibi consequeretur."
Is this really "immarcessibilem"? See this manuscript page.
"His igitur ordinibus institutis et (#277 A#) aliis perfectis
pius rex Jerusalem Balduinus in gravem incidit aegritudinem,
vidensque sibi mortis imminere diem de proprio palatio egressus
supplex et humilis regio fastu deposito in conspectum
Domini in palatio patriarchae, quia locus dominicae resurrectioni
erat vicinior, se transferri praecepit ibique vocatis filia
et genero pueroque Balduino jam bimilo coram praesentibus
regni principibus curam eis regni tradidit, ipse autem..."
What does "bimilo" mean? "Logeion" was not helpful, but the manuscript seems to have it as well.


I would really appreciate it, if you were able to help me with these issues.

Valete (or Dankon!),

Carolus Raeticus
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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Carolus Raeticus wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am Is this really "frascis"? There is a manuscript-version (not exactly the same text), but I cannot make out the writing. Any idea?
I think this is fratris. Glad to see you're hard at work on Vol. 2!
EDIT: Sorry, there's no way this can be fratris. Whatever it is, it's most likely a dative plural, which rules out fratris.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Carolus Raeticus »

Actually, I almost at the end of this project and currently preparing to begin transcription of the third and final volume, which promises to be especially interesting. I am looking forward to it. So, help me with these remaining questions concerning volume 2.

Carolus Raeticus
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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Carolus Raeticus wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am Shouldn't this be "constanter" instead of "contanter"? The manuscript does not seem to be of much use here, because it seems to use another word.
I checked both manuscripts at the MDZ, and they both have the word 'gratanter'. I don't know where Hassler got 'contanter'. 'gratanter' goes much better with 'libenter'. 'contanter', meaning "with delay, slowly" would go against the force of libenter "gladly". What's going on there is that Soldanus is making an offer to the Christians that if they lift the siege at Damiata, that he would cede Jerusalem to them in perpetuity, as well as rebuild its walls out of his own funds and return all Christian prisoners; the only stipulation was he would retain the Lord's temple. This was an offer which King John of Jerusalem, the Franks, and the Teutons would "gladly and gratefully" accept, but the Italian Legate, Cardinal Pelagio,and the Eastern Christians would not, nor would they receive Soldanus' heralds.
P.S. That was a nice job on Vol. 1 ! It formatted perfectly on my I-Phone.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Carolus Raeticus wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am Is this really "immarcessibilem"? See this manuscript page.
Looking in the DMLBS, immarcessibilis appears to be an alternate form of immarcescibilis:
https://logeion.uchicago.edu/immarcescibilis

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Carolus Raeticus wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am What does "bimilo" mean? "Logeion" was not helpful, but the manuscript seems to have it as well.
I checked the other manuscript at MDZ and it too shows 'bimilo' . I would guess that it agrees with puero and probably is medieval Latin for 'bimulus', " only two years old". I wish I could be more authoritative, but I just don't have enough experience with medieval Latin to give you a definite answer.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Carolus Raeticus »

Salve Aetos!
Aetos wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:04 pm P.S. That was a nice job on Vol. 1 ! It formatted perfectly on my I-Phone.
Thank you for your help so far. I will keep "immarcessibilem" and "bimilo". I will also keep "contanter" but add a footnote recommending "gratanter" (I want to be conservative rather than creative).

I am happy, that FF1 is working to your satisfaction. I guess that Project Gutenberg's policy of strict HTML-versions which have, in addition, been checked for errors using the W3C's "validator", is indeed able to ensure that the resulting e-books work on most modern computers (and similia).

Vale,

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Carolus Raeticus wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am Is this really "Hentgi"?. Compare the manuscript.
After a little more digging, I think it's safe to say this is a surname. The modern variant is 'Hentges'. Röhricht and Meisner include 'Johannes Hentgi' in their Register of pilgrims which is appended to their work Deutsche Pilgerreisen nach dem heiligen Lande, Berlin, 1880:
https://books.google.com/books?id=gZg_v ... gi&f=false

N.B.: R&M's source is F.F.F

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Carolus Raeticus wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am Is this really "Imgfren"? See this manuscript.
I'm wondering if this actually might be Early New High German 'Jungfrau/n/en'. It was, presumably, a convent founded by sisters of the order of Saint Lazarus. FF does use a few German words in his narrative; however, in Hassler's edition, these words are usually printed in Fraktur. Here's an example:
https://books.google.com/books?id=gZg_v ... gi&f=false

After a lot of searching, however, I can't find any instances of Hassler using the Fraktur typeface for proper names.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Aetos wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:35 pm
Carolus Raeticus wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:54 am Is this really "frascis"? There is a manuscript-version (not exactly the same text), but I cannot make out the writing. Any idea?
I think this is fratris. Glad to see you're hard at work on Vol. 2!
EDIT: Sorry, there's no way this can be fratris. Whatever it is, it's most likely a dative plural, which rules out fratris.
First off, here's a link to the same section in the other text at the MDZ:
https://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/00 ... &seite=431

Carole, all I can give is a couple of conjectures, because the word in both manuscripts seems to be "frascis".
The context is that he is giving 40 reasons why his order (militia) is best ever sent to the holy land. Reason number 31: his order is free from all the ** and false (foul, sordid) praises and everyone is treated as an equal; in other words, the members don't squabble over social position, because they are all equally "soldiers of our Lord". Given that context,
'frascis' can be "teeth gnashing" (bickering) from frendo, ere, fressum, becoming fraseus in medieval Latin, or perhaps a corruption of frasis, which could have the meaning of rhetoric, eloquence (so, empty rhetoric).

Anyway, those are my guesses and I'm afraid that's all I've got. Good luck and I'll look forward to seeing FF2 soon!

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

You probably already know this, Carole, but I just discovered it inside the front cover of Hassler's Volume 1. The copy came originally from the University Library of Lausanne, and had a descriptive note on Hassler's series. Here's the note:
https://books.google.com/books?id=ztUWA ... &q&f=false

What caught my attention was "le dominicain allemand Fabri ou Schmidt...". Then the light bulb came on. Faber is Latin for Schmidt.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by mwh »

Congratulations on solving Carolus’ problems Aetos!

I think I mentioned this before, on vol.1, but Carolus why you persist in calling it Fabri’s Evagatorium? It’s not Fabri’s but Faber’s. (Or Happy Smith’s? :) )

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

Thank you, Michael! I had a notion you were letting me fly "solo" on this one!

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Carolus Raeticus »

mwh wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:53 am I think I mentioned this before, on vol.1, but Carolus why you persist in calling it Fabri’s Evagatorium? It’s not Fabri’s but Faber’s. (Or Happy Smith’s? :) )
Actually, I had been wondering at the beginning of the transcription projects whether his name might indeed be "Faber", but the Wikipedia-articles refer to "Fabri", not "Faber" (the German article even quotes "Faber" as wrong). More importantly, however, references refer both to "Felix Fabri" AND to "Felix Faber", e.g. this German web-page giving historical references (the page belongs to the Bavarian Academy of Sciences, so some quality can be expected). Most importantly, however, the first volume of the Evagatorium (see this page at Google-Books) actually has, right at the beginning, "Frater Felix Fabri". So, I am going to stick to "Fabri".

Vale
Sperate miseri, cavete felices.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Carolus Raeticus »

Thank you, Aetos, for providing valuable help. I'll leave it at this and keep the rest of the text as is. I already have 189 footnotes concerning changes and a few remarks. But I was conservative when changing anything. I applied changes only when these were obvious typos and NEVER when it seemed possible to be an alternative spelling. Still, there may be an instance of me having been too eager (it is easy to be blind to one's own misjudgment), but all changes are indicated, so that the original text of the reprint can be easily recreated. I also may have missed (during the two proofreading-runs I made) a few typos I introduced into the transcription myself, but as they say: "Perfection is the enemy of the good". I did use Whitaker's WORDS-programme (God bless the man!!!) to help me with this, but still...

Anyway, I have to apply some finishing touches, but it should not take too much time before I can finally upload it to Project Gutenberg (sigh of relief!).

Vale,

Carolus Raeticus
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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by mwh »

Thanks for the reply Carolus. I see that Felix Fabri is well established as his name in modern literature, but surely this originates in misinterpretation of the genitive form of the name, Fratris Felicis Fabri, as we have it in the heading of the Evagatorium.
I see the German Wiki article says “Er nannte sich selbst Fabri und signierte gern mit f.f.f. (Frater Felix Fabri),” and Hassler’s edition of the introductory epistola is indeed headed FRATER FELIX FABRI, but is there any actual authority for Fabri rather than Faber?

It’s a small point but it bugs me. I suspect Fabrification. :)

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Carolus Raeticus »

Salve mwh!
mwh wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:22 am Thanks for the reply Carolus. I see that Felix Fabri is well established as his name in modern literature, but surely this originates in misinterpretation of the genitive form of the name, Fratris Felicis Fabri, as we have it in the heading of the Evagatorium. It’s a small point but it bugs me. I suspect Fabrification. :)
You may be actually right, but it is common practice to give his name as Felix Fabri. A fuller list of name variants can be found at this Bibliothèque Nationale de France-page. Interesting is also is this Italian paper (l viaggio del frate domenicano Felix Fabri da Ulm a Venezia e da Venezia a Ulm (1483-1484)). On page 2 (footnote 5) the author gives his reasons for using the name Felix Fabri instead of Felix Faber:
Giulio Orazio Bravi wrote: Di per sé dovremmo scrivere Faber, ma essendosi ormai imposta e consolidata, nei cataloghi di biblioteca e in bibliografia, il genitivo Fabri, anch’io mi adeguo e adotto sempre in questo saggio la forma Fabri.
I bow to the wisdom of people who deal with this on a professional basis, and, I admit, I am lazy person who does not wish to have to decide every single question.

Vale,

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by mwh »

One word in response to that: mumpsimus.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Carolus Raeticus »

As for the question whether the surname is "Fabri" or "Faber": While proofreading the index to the last volume of the Evagatorium I stumbled upon the following:
FFF wrote: F. haec littera talimodo triplicata fff vel FFF denotat compositoris Evagatorii
statum, proprium nomen, et cognomen. Primum F significat,
eum esse fratrem status religionis, ordinis Praedicatorum. Secundum
F indicat nomen, quod est Felix. Tertium F cognomen ex progenitoribus,
quod est Fabri.
An image of a manuscript (right column, top) confirms Fabri. Okay, this is not the original manuscript, but this dates from 1508 (by Hartmann Schedel, the guy of Schedelsche Weltchronik-fame), That does not mean, that Mr. "F" did not also go by the name "Faber" or some German equivalent, but it seems clear enough that "Fabri" is valid.

As for the source of the index:
Indicem, qui sequitur, a Fratre Henrico Wild confectum, ab alio
quodum monacho correctum, ipse noster Felix secundo operis sui volumini
praefixit.
Vale,

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by mwh »

Well it depends what you mean by “valid.” The dogma you quote has no authority, it only confirms what we already knew, that the mistaken Fabri is of long standing (and its genesis perfectly obvious). In your previous post you yourself referred to a 2015 article acknowledging that we should really write Faber, not Fabri (“Di per sé dovremmo scrivere Faber, …”). That was precisely the point that I made.

Ratio et res ipsa commend Faber. To perpetuate Fabri is to perpetuate mumpsimus.

Valeas, mi amice.

Miseri, cavete felices.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by seanjonesbw »

Don't you think you're being a bit of a grumpsimus? There's surely interest in keeping alive the work of Titivilli when it has some history to it.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by mwh »

So you’d side with the Titivilli and print mumpsimus?

But yes I should have let it go at Fabrication.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by Aetos »

This being the 21st century, I've think they've evolved-they're now Digititivilli.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by seanjonesbw »

mwh wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:16 pm So you’d side with the Titivilli and print mumpsimus?
No, but I'm going to make you read a personal story before I tell you why 😀

As you know, The Mabinogion is (/are, here begin the problems) the most important collection of Welsh prose literature, but the word 'Mabinogion' itself is only attested as a variant in a single manuscript and is clearly a scribal error.

Welsh is very rich in plural noun endings and the scribe seems to have mistaken the existing plural (Mabinogi, which is the final word of the first four stories) for singular and pluralised it by adding -on (cf. Hobbitses). This irritated me for a few years and following the example of some venerable 20th century Welsh literary scholars I would rather pompously make a point of saying Mabinogi rather than Mabinogion in the vain hope that I was part of a turning tide.

My Hakuna Matata moment came when I realised that the scribe who made the mistake was a Welsh speaker, the 18th century antiquarians who used the word Mabinogion as a title for the collection were Welsh speakers and that the name of the collection made no difference to the meaning of its contents. I'm now of the opinion that this quirk of the name adds to the richness of the history of the text and so, perversely, I've become quite fond of it and would be as miffed if it changed to Mabinogi as if publishers started printing Mary Evans instead of George Eliot.

To answer your question - hopelessly unqualified as I am to deal with anything relating to Latin - I wouldn't print mumpsimus, because that interferes with the meaning of the text (Wikipedia informs me), but I sympathise with those who've become sentimentally attached to Fabri, whose name doesn't seem to make any difference to the contents of his book. Don't take any of this too seriously - I'm absolutely desperate for human contact beyond my house.
Aetos wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:38 pm This being the 21st century, I've think they've evolved-they're now Digititivilli.
😎

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by mwh »

Good story Sean, thanks.

Agreed the form of the good brother’s name makes no difference to the contents of his diary, parts of which I found quite interesting. An app.crit. is the proper place for significant textual errors (of which there are not very many, but some of them fun to put right, the most satisfying for me being glari, for gloriari). That would serve to keep them alive, as you put it, without enshrining them in the text.

As to the good monk’s name, I don’t really care, and i have no hope of turning the tide, but if ever I have cause to mention him again I shall call him Felix Faber, simply because the absurd perversity of calling him Felix Fabri irks me (and “Mr. Fabri” irks me more). George Eliot was at least the name she chose to publish under. But as you and Walt say, hakuna matata. (Or Umpa umpa, stick it up your jumper.—Before your time. Before mine, actually.)

Not sure this counts as human contact, but it’s the best we can do.

errwso.

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Re: Help need with Fabri's "Evagatorium" (Volume 2)

Post by seanjonesbw »

seanjonesbw wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:50 pm I've become quite fond of it and would be as miffed if it changed to Mabinogi as if publishers started printing Mary Evans instead of George Eliot.
And lo, I was miffed...

BBC NEWS - Middlemarch and other works by women reissued under their real names

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