Latin: An intensive Course: M & F

[Pianophile]

Latin: An intensive Course: Moreland and Fleischer
Unit one exercise

9. Est cura (Nom) de poena (Abl.) poetae (Nom.pl)
Expected answer: The poet is concerned about the punishment.

Should that not be The poets?
And if so should est cura perhaps be turned into sunt curae?

[Shenoute]

If the book says that poetae is nominative plural then there is a typo.

[Pianophile]

If the book says that poetae is nominative plural then there is a typo.

The nominative plural is my addition.
The expected answer gives: The poet (singular)
Is there a typo in the exercise or in the answer - or am I missing something?

[Shenoute]

The nominative plural is my addition.

Ah ok, that makes more sense. What can the form poetae be, apart from nominative plural?

[Pianophile]

The nominative plural is my addition.

Ah ok, that makes more sense. What can the form poetae be, apart from nominative plural?

Genetive sing.

Hence: The concern of the poet is about the punishment.
Thanks. Should have thought of that!!
Gratias tibi ago!

[Shenoute]

You're welcome!

Note that poetae can also be dative singular, which is what the book is going for there: "there is concern to the poet about the punishment" > "The poet has concern about the punishment" > hence the textbook answer, "The poet is concerned about the punishment."
The use of dative+est is very common to express this: "there is X to me" = "I have X".

[Pianophile]

You're welcome!

Note that poetae can also be dative singular, which is what the book is going for there: "there is concern to the poet about the punishment" > "The poet has concern about the punishment" > hence the textbook answer, "The poet is concerned about the punishment."
The use of dative+est is very common to express this: "there is X to me" = "I have X".

There's so much to learn. Dative flung at one in Unit One! Familia Romana seems like a walk on the park by comparison. Again Multas Gratias tibi ago.

[MegasKomnenos]

Hi Pianophile, Shenoute,

I have always interpreted this as M&F's illustration of 'Note that est may be translated "there is" as well as "he, she, it is".' (p.31).

My reading of this sentence has always been:

'There is concern about the poet's punishment.'

I think that when 'est, erat, erit' etc. takes first position in a sentence, it is often being used in this way. But I don't see that Shenoute's solution is incorrect. Just another possibility.

Whereas I believed that sentences 19 and 27 are illustrations of Dat. of the Possessor as Shenoute interprets sentence 9.
I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about this. There is every possibility that I have always been wrong in my interpretation. Is there some way of picking between the two interpretations? Or would that require the context of an entire passage?

Best,

Jamie

[Shenoute]

I think that when 'est, erat, erit' etc. takes first position in a sentence, it is often being used in this way. But I don't see that Shenoute's solution is incorrect. Just another possibility.

I agree. My first (very literal) translation reflects that:

"there is concern to the poet about the punishment" > "The poet has concern about the punishment" > hence the textbook answer, "The poet is concerned about the punishment."

Whereas I believed that sentences 19 and 27 are illustrations of Dat. of the Possessor as Shenoute interprets sentence 9.
I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about this. There is every possibility that I have always been wrong in my interpretation. Is there some way of picking between the two interpretations? Or would that require the context of an entire passage?

I agree that the distinction between Genitive and Dative is impossible here, because we have no context. My preference goes to dative because Pianophile mentioned the expected answer was: "The poet is concerned about the punishment."

[Pianophile]

"'Curiouser and curiouser! ' cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English). " - Lewis Carroll

Many thanks to both of you for most helpful replies.

[Propertius]

I believe poetae is in the dative. I forgot what kind of dative it is. I'll look through my grammar book tomorrow and find it.

[phalakros]

dative of the possessor...it's only formally introduced a few units later. Students always get tripped up by this one and rightfully so

[Propertius]

I'll just confirm what others have said: poetae is a dative of possession.