Συμπόσιον and Τίμαιος

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Lukas
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Συμπόσιον and Τίμαιος

Post by Lukas »

Years ago, I read an English translation of Συμπόσιον and Τίμαιος. I just read them again. Although Plato acknowledges different gods, he seems to deemphasize them a little. In Συμπόσιον, there are numerous speeches about Ἔρως. In this case, he seems to be the one who is of old and not a son of Αφροδίτη. In Τίμαιος, he stresses the δημιουργός and just has the gods creating bodies. I do not see the gods interacting like they did in the Ἰλιάς. Of course, other writers in Plato's day did write about lots of gods. It just makes me wonder if Plato and Socrates deemphasized them?
Λουκᾶς

cb
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Re: Συμπόσιον and Τίμαιος

Post by cb »

Hi, there is a lot of good work on this topic. As a starting-point, I'd suggest Sedley's recent article on Plato's theology (ch. 26 of the Oxford handbook of Plato 2019).

More generally, there are good descriptions on the differences between Homeric and classical Athenian views of the gods, e.g. sec. 2.64 of The world of Athens: An introduction to classical Athenian culture describing how a Homeric hero, if he was dropped into classical Athens, would have felt about the general attitude to the gods at that time.

Cheers, Chad

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Paul Derouda
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Re: Συμπόσιον and Τίμαιος

Post by Paul Derouda »

This is an interesting question. It seems to me that the gods as represented in the Homeric Epics, or in hexameter poetry in general, aren't really representative of ancient Greek every day religious beliefs or cult practices. It has been argued (by Martin West among others, I think?) that the whole idea of a divine family that regularly gathers in a divine assembly, so frequent in Homer, is actually borrowed from Near Eastern mythology, and doesn't really reflect actual Greek beliefs. It also seems to be a common misconception that Homer was a religious authority for ancient Greeks - they simply knew nothing like a sacred text or Scripture.

Herodotus, for example, seems to be largely sceptical of personified, anthropomorphic deities and mythological deeds adscribed to individual gods. (I can look up for examples, if someone wishes to discuss this more in detail - perhaps even in new thread "Herodotus and religion" or something...) This doesn't mean that Herodotus isn't religious, but his religion is something completely different from Homer and Hesiod. He does believe in cosmic power(s) of some sort, but doesn't wish to discuss their nature in more detail, believing that all human beings are equally knowledgeable (or not!) in such matters. He has a strong belief that supernatural powers control the universe and punish excessive and criminal actions, although sometimes several generations later; this principle even extends to the animal domain, so that the "divine principle" limits the breeding of fearful, harmful animals like lions and snakes, while allowing harmless animals like rabbits to breed freely. Or at least this is my take on Herodotus' ideas on religion, what do you think?

Anyway, my main question is whether cb or someone else can point me to some literature about the religious views of Herodotus as compared to the Greek religious attitudes in general.

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Re: Συμπόσιον and Τίμαιος

Post by cb »

Hi Paul, I don't know personally about Herodotus' views on this—you've got me interested though. If anyone finds anything useful on this topic, please let us know!

Cheers, Chad

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