Is it too early to discuss politics?

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Talmid
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Is it too early to discuss politics?

Post by Talmid »

I heard from a prominent particpant in this forum that tensions on this forum normally get heated as time draws near for presidential elections. Anyway, I think it's going to be funny to see the reactions of our forum members. Me, personally, I don't care much for politics anymore because I think a lot of politicians are just slime. I've long figured out that decent, smart people don't become politicians--probably for fear of losing their dignity, somthing all politicians are apt to do.

Who'll win the American presidential election? I don't know and I almost don't even care since I don't have hope yet in any of the candidates.

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Re: Is it too early to discuss politics?

Post by klewlis »

Talmid wrote:I've long figured out that decent, smart people don't become politicians--probably for fear of losing their dignity, somthing all politicians are apt to do.
while this may be true in many cases, I am fortunate to have a friend in politics who is smart, decent, and even female. She hasn't run for office yet but hopes to in the future, and in the meantime works for current politicians (one of whom is very high profile in Canada). Her father was a politician before her, and from what I know was also decent and smart. :)

So it *can* happen, though I do agree that they are rare... and that even if a person starts out ok, they often get sucked into the madness somewhere along the line.
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus

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Post by Talmid »

So it *can* happen, though I do agree that they are rare... and that even if a person starts out ok, they often get sucked into the madness somewhere along the line.
I agree, and I think the troubles we face today are just the same as they were in Cicero's time.

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Post by Turendil »

Excepting that we no longer allow fathers to sell their sons into slavery.

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Post by Kopio »

I think it's appropriate to talk about it, especially since the forum has been like a graveyard lately.

I'm not sure who will be the next president. Hillary is warming up for a good run though. She just might be our first female president. But I'm still not sure if a Democrat who is a northerner can pull it off. I'll probably wait it out a bit until there aren't so many candidates and then I'll start seriously considering the people who are running.

For me the perfect candidate is: Fiscally conservative, environmentally moderate, and for pulling us out of Iraq, but not yanking us out so quick that all that has been accomplished there is for nothing.

Now, if only I can find my buddy PeterD :P

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Post by πετ?ης »

Madame Hillary is too controversial for many (given her husband's time in office). Fred Thompson will probably sit back and watch Giuilani implode as he is most likely going to do. I can see Big Fred winning as he is removed from the current regime and my impression is many voters who are not partisan have the idea that Republicans are better with national security. (I don't feel that way but it seems many do. Feel free to prove me wrong -- I'd like to hear about it.)

Me? I'd like to see Bill Richardson get a shot.

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Post by klewlis »

On some comedy show (22 minutes, perhaps?) there was a little sketch where an advocate of Hillary Clinton was walking down the hallway with a folder of Hillary photos, talking about how it's time for a woman to be in power. She bumped rather forcefully into an advocate for Obama, also carrying photos, saying it's time for a black person to be in power. When they collected up their scattered photos they discovered that they had been merged--into a photo of Oprah. I found this particularly amusing.

(Though if Oprah ever becomes president, I'm moving to Africa.)
First say to yourself what you would be; then do what you need to do. ~Epictetus

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Post by Bert »

Kopio wrote:....but not yanking us out so quick that all that has been accomplished there is for nothing.
Good point.

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Post by Chris Weimer »

Obama 08.

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Post by RutgersGuy »

I totally agree with Obama in 08; the only real people running are Hilary and Barak. Sadly, the horrible ways in which the Republicans are perceived to have run the country is going to force a swing toward any Democrat. Frankly, I hope Hillary looses because she is willing ot side with corporate America on key issues, but then again, aren't I part of corporate America...

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Post by Rhuiden »

Fred Thompson is our guy......wait and see. Giuliani will fall apart and cannot get elected as a republican and no other candidate on the republican side has a shot....it is Fred's nomination to lose.

www.imwithfred.com

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Post by Rhuiden »

I started a blog a couple months ago. I discuss mainly religion and politics. Check it out if you are interested:

www.sanctification.wordpress.com

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Post by Chris Weimer »

RutgersGuy wrote:I totally agree with Obama in 08; the only real people running are Hilary and Barak. Sadly, the horrible ways in which the Republicans are perceived to have run the country is going to force a swing toward any Democrat. Frankly, I hope Hillary looses because she is willing ot side with corporate America on key issues, but then again, aren't I part of corporate America...

Brent B
My sentiments exactly.

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Post by Kopio »

This is so amazing, a thread about politics and no-one has gotten nasty yet :D

Where is PeterD when I need him?

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Post by annis »

Rhuiden wrote:Fred Thompson is our guy......wait and see. Giuliani will fall apart and cannot get elected as a republican and no other candidate on the republican side has a shot....it is Fred's nomination to lose.
With the possible exception of porn, I can't imagine a more stylized and openly artificial theatrical form native to these shores than presidential politics — stock characters, stock lines, stock costumes. Last week I learned from the news that Giuliani has started to name-drop Jesus. It's like someone reanimated the corpse of Stanley Kubrick to do a kabuki revival.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Post by RutgersGuy »

annis wrote:
Rhuiden wrote:Fred Thompson is our guy......wait and see. Giuliani will fall apart and cannot get elected as a republican and no other candidate on the republican side has a shot....it is Fred's nomination to lose.
With the possible exception of porn, I can't imagine a more stylized and openly artificial theatrical form native to these shores than presidential politics — stock characters, stock lines, stock costumes. Last week I learned from the news that Giuliani has started to name-drop Jesus. It's like someone reanimated the corpse of Stanley Kubrick to do a kabuki revival.
I hate to tell anybody on this board, but Rudy doesn't stand a chance of winning. People keep forgetting that--sadly--people aren't gonna forget who led them into a war thats devestatating the economy, our society, and erroding our moral high-ground. Like, people are quite livid over the current administration and nothing the republicans can do will distance themselves enough to have a chance to win. Sure, Fred Thompson may win the nomination, but he doesnt stand a chance against hillary or obama--especially if they team up for some prez/vp action.

The republicans need to just sit back, field strong canniadates to set them up for either a congressional win in 2010 or a presidential bid in 2012. As for 2008, its a democrat's turn; hopefully they will do a decent job with running the country.

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Post by RutgersGuy »

RutgersGuy wrote:
annis wrote:
Rhuiden wrote:Fred Thompson is our guy......wait and see. Giuliani will fall apart and cannot get elected as a republican and no other candidate on the republican side has a shot....it is Fred's nomination to lose.
With the possible exception of porn, I can't imagine a more stylized and openly artificial theatrical form native to these shores than presidential politics — stock characters, stock lines, stock costumes. Last week I learned from the news that Giuliani has started to name-drop Jesus. It's like someone reanimated the corpse of Stanley Kubrick to do a kabuki revival.
I hate to tell anybody on this board, but Rudy doesn't stand a chance of winning. People keep forgetting that--sadly--people aren't gonna forget who led them into a war thats devestatating the economy, our society, and erroding our moral high-ground. Like, people are quite livid over the current administration and nothing the republicans can do will distance themselves enough to have a chance to win. Sure, Fred Thompson may win the nomination, but he doesnt stand a chance against hillary or obama--especially if they team up for some prez/vp action.

The republicans need to just sit back, field strong canniadates to set them up for either a congressional win in 2010 or a presidential bid in 2012. As for 2008, its a democrat's turn; hopefully they will do a decent job with running the country.
Oh, and I hope to God that Rudy does win the nomination; because if he does, nobody from NYC with half a soul is going to let him win. The way he threw aside the firemen, police, and other first responders of 9/11 is gonna come back to haunt him. While I think that turining any political election into a mud-slinging match is just plain old base, it would serve him right--he didn't do anything good for NYC when he was mayor, and he wouldn't do anything for the US except to confirm to the world that we are a bunch of idiots electing idiots.

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Post by edonnelly »

Rhuiden wrote:I started a blog a couple months ago. I discuss mainly religion and politics.
No Vols?
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Post by Rhuiden »

edonnelly wrote:
Rhuiden wrote:I started a blog a couple months ago. I discuss mainly religion and politics.
No Vols?
Well, one of the first things I added to my blog was a Big Orange Power T in the upper right corner of the home page. And you never know when a littl Vol discussion might be posted...but it is not the main focus...those are just for fun.

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Post by RutgersGuy »

And yes I will beat a topic to death; this sicko appeared on daytime tv this week and loves Rudy

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/0 ... nuke-iran/

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Post by Rhuiden »

RutgersGuy wrote:The republicans need to just sit back, field strong canniadates to set them up for either a congressional win in 2010 or a presidential bid in 2012. As for 2008, its a democrat's turn; hopefully they will do a decent job with running the country.
I can't agree with that. Hillary can't win the south or midwest if the republicans put up a decent candidate (meaning not Giuliani). And if she was elected, we would never get her out of office...she would dissolve the government and have herself declared queen.....and can you imagine Bill in the White House with nothing to do...can you say "look out female interns"

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Post by ndansmith »

Of particular interest to me in presidential races are how the "fringe" candidates can guide the discourse within parties. Ron Paul may not poll well among Republican likely voters who have a land line, are not on the Do Not Call list, and are available in the evenings, but you can see that his contrary libertarian policies are making some Republicans actually have to explain themselves in certain cases. He is the darling of the internet, and raised more cash than John McCain this summer. I like Paul because he makes things interesting.

This is a very interesting election in general (though I do agree with Annis' sentiments in general). There is no heir apparent, so the nomination is wide open for both parties for the first time in a long time, Add to that the fact that the Republican "family values" party's front-runner Rudy is quite the opposite of the "family values" positions.

Then you have Bill Richardson on the Dem side. He is a Southern Governor, so he already has a pretty good shot. If I remember correctly, the NRA has given him, a Democrat, their highest rating of anyone in the field. Now that is not typical these days.

It is very likely that the Dems will put forth a Black, woman, or Hispanic candidate for the first time among "major" parties. Given the current situation with the Republican party, that may translate into a likely win for such a minority.

I told my friend Hans the other day that I am going to pop a bowl of popcorn, grab a soda, sit on the coach and take this very entertaining cycle in. :-)

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Post by ndansmith »

Rhuiden wrote:And if she was elected, we would never get her out of office...she would dissolve the government and have herself declared queen.....
Now forgive me for even asking, but the internet has made all things possible: Are you speaking with tongue-in-cheek, or do you actually think that a Clinton presidency will signal the end of the republic?

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Post by Rhuiden »

ndansmith wrote:
Rhuiden wrote:And if she was elected, we would never get her out of office...she would dissolve the government and have herself declared queen.....
Now forgive me for even asking, but the internet has made all things possible: Are you speaking with tongue-in-cheek, or do you actually think that a Clinton presidency will signal the end of the republic?
Both really. I think she is that arrogant. Beyond that, her policies (tax and spend socialism) will lead us down the path to communism. Maybe to the point that we cannot ever recover.

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Post by ndansmith »

Rhuiden wrote:
ndansmith wrote:
Rhuiden wrote:And if she was elected, we would never get her out of office...she would dissolve the government and have herself declared queen.....
Now forgive me for even asking, but the internet has made all things possible: Are you speaking with tongue-in-cheek, or do you actually think that a Clinton presidency will signal the end of the republic?
Both really. I think she is that arrogant. Beyond that, her policies (tax and spend socialism) will lead us down the path to communism. Maybe to the point that we cannot ever recover.
Well that is some sensationalist rhetoric. Here is where things may get flamey: While Hillary is a Tax and Spend Democrat, I much prefer that to a Spend Republican (with respect to Bush's deficit). :-)

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Post by RutgersGuy »

Rhuiden wrote:
RutgersGuy wrote:The republicans need to just sit back, field strong canniadates to set them up for either a congressional win in 2010 or a presidential bid in 2012. As for 2008, its a democrat's turn; hopefully they will do a decent job with running the country.
I can't agree with that. Hillary can't win the south or midwest if the republicans put up a decent candidate (meaning not Giuliani). And if she was elected, we would never get her out of office...she would dissolve the government and have herself declared queen.....and can you imagine Bill in the White House with nothing to do...can you say "look out female interns"
Fine, I agree that hillary may declare herself queen. But, there isnt a decent candidate in the republican camp. Nobody is raising the kind of money that the dems are so basically, its game over.

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Post by RutgersGuy »

ndansmith wrote:
Rhuiden wrote:
ndansmith wrote: Now forgive me for even asking, but the internet has made all things possible: Are you speaking with tongue-in-cheek, or do you actually think that a Clinton presidency will signal the end of the republic?
Both really. I think she is that arrogant. Beyond that, her policies (tax and spend socialism) will lead us down the path to communism. Maybe to the point that we cannot ever recover.
Well that is some sensationalist rhetoric. Here is where things may get flamey: While Hillary is a Tax and Spend Democrat, I much prefer that to a Spend Republican (with respect to Bush's deficit). :-)
Oh boy, whats next, an invasion by the chinese, i mean bararians...;)

--that wasnt a racist remark--just a commical statement out of who would most likely try and take us down w/ force.

8)

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Post by Rhuiden »

RutgersGuy wrote:Oh boy, whats next, an invasion by the chinese, i mean bararians...;)

--that wasnt a racist remark--just a commical statement out of who would most likely try and take us down w/ force.
Well, the chinese do have a history of trying to influence our elections with monetary contributions to the Clintons. Both Bill and Hillary have been caught accepting "shady" contributions. Unless I am mistaken, this is illegal but neither of the Clintons were prosecuted.....I can't help but wonder what would have happened it had been a republican who got caught.

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Post by Rhuiden »

RutgersGuy wrote:Fine, I agree that hillary may declare herself queen. But, there isnt a decent candidate in the republican camp. Nobody is raising the kind of money that the dems are so basically, its game over.
You may be right....but I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY hope that you are not.

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Post by edonnelly »

RutgersGuy wrote:Fine, I agree that hillary may declare herself queen. But, there isnt a decent candidate in the republican camp. Nobody is raising the kind of money that the dems are so basically, its game over.
Hillary will probably win the whole thing (though it will be without my vote), but it could be worse -- at least she's not John Edwards.

I've been predicting all along that Obama is really running for Vice President. I think he'd be hard-pressed to win the general election with his lack of experience, but if he could get the VP spot for 4 (or, ugh, 8) years, then most of his nay-sayers will be out of ammunition. If he can make a good enough showing in the primaries, then Hillary will have to choose him.

But, if ever I were to be wrong, this would be the best time. If people get to know Fred he may have a chance yet.
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Post by Rhuiden »

Fred Thompson is the only Republican in the field that can beat Hillary!!

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Post by Arvid »

Why do we even bother having elections? We elected one guy president in 2000, and the other guy seized power anyway. There was no rebellion, so democracy is a dead letter in this country.

As long as dirt votes instead of people (All the red on the map vs. the blue; the blue is where the people are, but with the Electoral College, it's land that votes,) electing a Democratic president will be impossible.

The Republicans were complaining that some of the recounts in Florida violated the sacred "One Man, One Vote" principle because they might make someone's vote in a predominantly Democratic district count for 1.0001 vote, or something like that, but apparently getting 2.4 votes in the presidential election if you live in New Hampshire, and .85 votes if you live in California, doesn't.

Personally, I would love to see Hillary Clinton president, but I think there are just enough troglodytes in this country who wouldn't vote for a woman to make that impossible. Fred Thompson is obviously qualified to be president because he's been in a couple of movies; Reagan proved that's all it takes!

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Post by Kopio »

I'm not sure the republicans are completely dead in the water, although they haven't been raising the money the democrats have.

As far as Hillary goes...my biggest concern is how well she will deal with many in the Arabic world who have little to no respect for women.

Personally I think Hillary would make a much better President than her husband did. While I disagree with her on many of the issues, she is a very bright woman, and incredibly savvy.

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Post by Rhuiden »

Kopio wrote:Personally I think Hillary would make a much better President than her husband did. While I disagree with her on many of the issues, she is a very bright woman, and incredibly savvy.
Do you really think that she can be a good president? Being better than Bill would not be that hard but he had something she does not.....the ability to assess a situation and adjust accordingly. She is too arrogant to be able to do this and I think in then end that will be her downfall.

I think it was Rush or Mark Levin who made the point that she has never been successful at anything on any level. Everything that she has ever tried has be a huge failure. The most glaring example of that is the socialized medical system she and bill tried to implement when he first took office. Here in Tennessee we have the "pilot" program of that which was supposed to show how well it works......well let me just say it has been a budget black hole. It is on its way to bankrupting our state.

No matter her personal IQ, she will be a disaster for our country. I just hope that enough people realize that before the election so we can stop her from being elected. If she is elected, especially with a democrat controlled House and Senate I am not sure if we will ever be able to recover.

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Post by edonnelly »

Arvid wrote:Personally, I would love to see Hillary Clinton president, but I think there are just enough troglodytes in this country who wouldn't vote for a woman to make that impossible. Fred Thompson is obviously qualified to be president because he's been in a couple of movies; Reagan proved that's all it takes!
What exactly are Hillary's qualifications, besides having once been married to a President and serving less time in the Senate than Thompson?

Also, is voting for someone solely because she is a woman just as bad as not voting for someone for the same reason? I'm sure the PC crowd will out in force during the general election to declare that anyone who doesn't vote for her is a misogynist, while any one who does, is doing so based upon her merits.
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Post by ndansmith »

Rhuiden wrote:She is too arrogant to be able to do this and I think in then end that will be her downfall.
You keep mentioning that Hillary is arrogant. How do you know that? Have you met her? ;-)

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Post by Kopio »

Rhuiden wrote:I think it was Rush or Mark Levin who made the point that she has never been successful at anything on any level. Everything that she has ever tried has be a huge failure.
First I have to say, that even as a Republican, I can't stand Rush. I think he's a loudmouth who likes to pontificate. He has virtually no credibility in my opinion.

Second...how can you say Hillary has never been successful at anything on any level? Hmmmmm....let's see. She was a pretty good lawyer, made a ton of money in a private firm...if memory serves right, she made more money when Bill was in office than he did. She also seemed to run and win a senate race, no minor accomplishment, especially since she was viewed as a carpetbagger by a large percentage of her current constituent. Finally, how about her marriage? Bill has done more of his fair share of things to get his butt divorced. She had every reason to leave him and clean him out, but she hung in there. That speaks to me quite a bit about her character.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not a big fan of Hillary, what I'm saying is, we could do a lot worse. Plus, I do think a Hillary/Obama pres/vp card would be very historic. Can you imagine a woman and a black man in the white house? Granted, they do not share my ideology, but it is way past time to have both of these minorities in top leadership positions.

As far as Fred goes....Arvid made the crack that he's qualified to be pres since he is an actor! That made me chuckle. All things said and done, it does help to command a good stage presence when faced with the office. This is, quite frankly, one of the things the Bill did best. He really knew how to hold himself and present himself in very difficult situations. Fred just plain looks presidential, which for many people will be more than enough reason to vote for him. I'd lay my money right now on him getting the nomination.

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Post by edonnelly »

Kopio wrote:Fred just plain looks presidential, which for many people will be more than enough reason to vote for him. I'd lay my money right now on him getting the nomination.
There's also a bit of a Cincinnatus air about him, which I think will appeal to many people. When he left the senate he would have easily been re-elected to a third term, but he chose to return to his regular life. Personally, I don't think career politicians are a great thing, and often the person who's whole life is about getting the job isn't necessarily the best one for it.
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Post by Arvid »

I don't know if I'm going to survive this election campaign. This will be my last post to this thread, however, because sooner or later I'd say something that would get me banned from the forum. I'm going to try to avoid reading it, too, because whenever I even think about the right-wing cabal that has hijacked my country I start literally foaming at the mouth and sooner or later I'm going to give myself a stroke.

The tragedy is that they've managed to roll back a century and a half of progress in a few short years, and I know that I'll never live long enough to see the damage repaired even if they were all thrown out and the Republican party outlawed tomorrow. I keep hoping they'll dig themselves a deep enough hole that they could never dig their way out again, but apparently there are still people willing to vote for a Republican even now. It's beyond my comprehension, and I'm going to take some Pepto-Bismol and work on my Greek. Sorry to vent like this, but I promise it's the last time.

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Post by Chris Weimer »

edonnelly wrote:What exactly are Hillary's qualifications, besides having once been married to a President and serving less time in the Senate than Thompson?
Thompson was a tool - always has been and always will be. Nixon's transcripts about using the stubborn Republican showed just how stupid Thompson is. Not to mention hypocritical as well - Christian? Yeah right. Anti-Communist? Not after he publicly boasted of smoking the finest (illegal) Cuban cigars, which he doesn't want anyone else purchasing.

Thompson would ruin the country. The only person running worse than Thompson is Ron Paul.

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