I would like to check this online translation, too, amabo te (vos?)
6. Dīcēbat quisque miser: “Cīvīs Rōmānus sum.”
Proposed (mis)translation Each miserable (man) was saying: “I am a Roman citizen.”
I don't like that because it sounds like "every unhappy person used to say....,"
Shouldn't it be something like: "Any lowlife used to claim to be a Roman citizen." That might be too informal but it's the right idea, isn't it?
quisque miser, CAPVUT XV, sextima sententia antiqua
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:10 pm
- seneca2008
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:48 pm
- Location: Londinium
Re: quisque miser, CAPVUT XV, sextima sententia antiqua
Without any context the tone (colour) that one should use is difficult to assess.
This is a quotation form Cicero From the Second of the Verrines which in its original context is:
"Cervices in carcere frangebantur indignissime civium Romanorum, ut iam illa vox et imploratio “Civis Romanus sum,” qua saepe multis in ultimis terris opem inter barbaros et salutem tulit, ea mortem illis acerbiorem et supplicium maturius ferret." (actio 2, book 5, section 147)
(There, in that prison, guiltless Roman citizens were most shamefully strangled. Now at last the cry “I am a Roman citizen,” the famous appeal that has so often brought men help and rescue among savage races in the furthest corners of the earth, was to hasten the infliction and increase the agony of these men’s death. Loeb)
As you will see Cicero's meaning is the opposite of what you were proposing. Far from disreputable men claiming (falsely) to be Roman Citizens it was reputable men invoking a claim which should have given them protection against the avarice and cruelty of Verres.
Context is indeed everything!
This is a quotation form Cicero From the Second of the Verrines which in its original context is:
"Cervices in carcere frangebantur indignissime civium Romanorum, ut iam illa vox et imploratio “Civis Romanus sum,” qua saepe multis in ultimis terris opem inter barbaros et salutem tulit, ea mortem illis acerbiorem et supplicium maturius ferret." (actio 2, book 5, section 147)
(There, in that prison, guiltless Roman citizens were most shamefully strangled. Now at last the cry “I am a Roman citizen,” the famous appeal that has so often brought men help and rescue among savage races in the furthest corners of the earth, was to hasten the infliction and increase the agony of these men’s death. Loeb)
As you will see Cicero's meaning is the opposite of what you were proposing. Far from disreputable men claiming (falsely) to be Roman Citizens it was reputable men invoking a claim which should have given them protection against the avarice and cruelty of Verres.
Context is indeed everything!
Persuade tibi hoc sic esse, ut scribo: quaedam tempora eripiuntur nobis, quaedam subducuntur, quaedam effluunt. Turpissima tamen est iactura, quae per neglegentiam fit. Et si volueris attendere, maxima pars vitae elabitur male agentibus, magna nihil agentibus, tota vita aliud agentibus.
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:10 pm
Re: quisque miser, CAPVUT XV, sextima sententia antiqua
Okay, thanks, I had no idea of the context.
How many translators does it take to screw in a light bulb?
1 - It depends on the context.
2 - It's hard to see how they could get inside one in the first place.
How many translators does it take to screw in a light bulb?
1 - It depends on the context.
2 - It's hard to see how they could get inside one in the first place.
- jeidsath
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 5332
- Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:42 pm
- Location: Γαλεήπολις, Οὐισκόνσιν
Re: quisque miser, CAPVUT XV, sextima sententia antiqua
"Unhappy person" seems very unlikely for reasonable contexts. Miser makes me think "wretch" before "lowlife" though.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:10 pm
Re: quisque miser, CAPVUT XV, sextima sententia antiqua
Now that Seneca showed me the context, I agree. The idea of "lowlife" was that I thought the context might be "before traitors had to forfeit their rights of citizenship, any lowlife (unprincipled traitor) could invoke his Roman citizenship as a defense" , probbly because I had recently read something on that subject in Cicero.